We are about 3 weeks from the start of training camp and, soon enough, we will have actual Lakers basketball to discuss. Until then, though, we are left speculating on who might fill out Byron Scott’s coaching staff, how the depth chart at each position might play out, and watching Nick Young randomly stop at a pick up game in New York and bury a step-back jumper while rocking some tight pants and shoes that look like Vans. Such is the summer.
What ends speculation, however, is when decision makers actually tell you what they plan to do. Recently, Byron Scott has been making the rounds with the media and, in the process, has been doing just that. Most recently he sat down with Mark Medina of the LA Daily News and covered a lot of ground, including a nugget about his initial plan regarding a starting lineup:
Scott will spend training camp figuring out his starting lineup, which he says will currently feature Nash, Bryant, Carlos Boozer and Jordan Hill. He is leaning toward starting Wesley Johnson at small forward because of his defensive potential and relying on Nick Young’s prolific scoring off the bench. Scott also reported Xavier Henry has not fully recovered from left wrist and right knee injuries.
While it would be easy to overreact to Scott saying he plans to start Boozer and Nash, it’s probably best to hold off on that. I thought mid-wilshire had a solid perspective in the comments by stating:
The question isn’t who starts but who finishes and who plays the most important minutes. Nash could start, say, and, in those games in which he does play, average only 15 mpg. The starting nod, then, would be largely symbolic. I wouldn’t get too upset over Nash and Boozer starting. Let’s wait and see how the rotations pan out. Then we’ll have something to talk about.
Beyond that, though, the idea of a healthy (crosses fingers) Nash and a veteran Boozer flanking Kobe isn’t the worst thing in the world — at least offensively*. Both offer a nice combination of scoring and passing ability and can provide the type of medium usage rates that can mesh with Kobe to form the trio of players who play with the ball in their hands most often while playing with more low usage players in Hill and Wes Johnson.
Further, the remaining players actually form a very interesting bench group:
PG: Jeremy Lin
SG: Nick Young
SF: Xavier Henry
PF: Julius Randle
C: Ed Davis
Looking at that group, they all share some common traits most notably youth and athleticism. All are more likely to thrive in a more open court game and will be able to change ends well with an ability maximize their athleticism by attempting to get easy baskets. Things will get more interesting in the half court where Lin, Young, Henry, and Randle all project to do their best work with the ball in their hands, but that’s where coaching and execution of the scheme will come into play. If channeled well and operating on the same page, this group should still be able to move the ball and play an attack style against set defenses.
In saying all that, however, none of this is set in stone. Yes, Scott has said this is what he’s planning to do. But it’s early September. With a full training camp ahead, preseason games to play, and a feeling out period that will extend into the regular season, changes are still very much likely as realities set in.
Even in saying that, though, it is interesting to think about. Even if, as noted above, it’s not really about who starts but who finishes.
*I will be saying this a lot this year, but if the Lakers can have relatively good health, I don’t expect offense to be a major problem. The defense, however, is projected to be poor and any lineup with Kobe, Nash, and Boozer playing for an extended period of time will suffer on that end. Byron Scott’s biggest issue this year will be finding lineups to get enough defensive stops and throwing out a group that will have more than one player on the wing who will struggle to defend and having a back-line defender who is as challenged as Boozer is will be problematic.
jp says
I think that starting Boozer and Nash is a great idea, by the very fact that u wudnt want to surround kobe with too much youth and athleticism that he wudnt be able to keep up with. The second string would indeed have its own way of scoring, more pizzazz maybe, more fast breaks and more flare, but buckets will be bucket and it will always come down to how well the Lakers can defend. Therefore, no matter who is starting or finishing, defense has to be played for 48 minutes.
Jerke says
Just a follow up to the Nash/team doctors comments – while the PHX staff was good for Nash, his main guy for his back/off season is Rick Cellibrini who works out of vancouver and is a co-founder/partner of Alex McKechnie in fortuissport in vancouver – where the raptors will now do their training camp etc…
http://www.fortiussport.com/OurTeam/TeamMembers/Pages/DrRickCelebrini.aspx –
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Raptors+train+Burnaby/10053183/story.html
So regardless of where McKechnie is currently, Nash has always been getting the best of his methods etc… all along and they’ve been in contact prior/after to him coming to the Lakers. When he had the recurring nerve/back issues following the leg break Nash and his doc consulted w McKechnie trying to find solutions to speed recovery.
smoothaswilkes says
Don’t care who starts and, really, don’t care who finishes as long as Randle gets plenty of run. If Byron doesn’t develop the youngsters this all for naught anyway.
rr says
So regardless of where McKechnie is currently, Nash has always been getting the best of his methods etc…
—
Quite possibly, and it is also possible that all the Lakers injury issues the last couple of years are just bad luck. It is worth noting that Bynum’s career pretty much ended due to health issues–after he left the Lakers.
But at the same time:
McKechnie seems to be a top guy in the field.
The Lakers let him go.
They have had really serious injury issues since he left.
So, it is the same pattern: people need to explain almost everything the FO has done, because most of it hasn’t worked.
I suspect that Scott will start Nash and Boozer if they can go. It is not a huge deal, but I would rather that he start Lin and Davis and play them 30-34 MPG apiece.
Renato Afonso says
Jerke, a leg break is bad luck and the thing regarding team doctors didn’t have anything to do with Nash or Kobe. It’s about every other muscular or tendon related injury we had.
I have no problem with Scott’s starting lineup. It actually seems obvious to start the more experienced group and go from there. Like mud said, what matters is the amount of minutes played, not who starts. We’ll see how it goes…
BigCitySid says
No problem with Lakers having the oldest, I mean most experienced starting back court in the league. From a piece I posted yesterday “I agree, however Nash wouldn’t be breaking ground as a 40 year old starting guard. John Stockton holds that honor. In ’02-’03, 40 year old Stockton started all 82 games he played in.
That said, I would prefer to have Lin start over Nash. Will be interesting to see which backcourt combination, Kobe-Nash or Kobe-Lin, will be most effective in the 4th quarter.”
Pertaining to Boozer, I fully expected him to start from day one. Don’t see Randle earning that spot in training camp…maybe during the season.
Vasheed says
I’ve been very impressed with how Scott has addressed things. For the players he has I believe he has come up with reasonable strategies and line ups. If he can maximize this roster I would have a lot of faith in the future of the Lakers under Scott.
Stuart says
From a previous post:
Scott announcing that Nash and Boozer will be starting does not surprise me. I’m hoping that Scott is initially deferring to the veterans on the team so as to not alienate them out of the gate. However, I hope he plays his best players the most minutes.
bryan S. says
And a Mad Dog shall lead Laker analytics:
http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/140911lins_value_hoop
The great offensive efficiency of Lin:
http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/140911lins_value_hoop
jerke says
Total agreement rr/renato, was just posting more for FYI. I know Mchecnie has been more than willing to provide assistance/consult to other teams and players post injury, but so much of his expertise is in prevention/active recovery and treatment that if you don’t have him on your own medical staff you lose 75% of his value
bryan S. says
rr: 1. Nice link to Danny Chau’s funny piece on the Laker nutrition program. I only quibble with the grass-fed bacon component: bacon, grass-fed or otherwise, like all cured meats should be eaten sparingly because of the sodium content. I make bone-broth soup, a staple of Chinese medicine for thousands of years (literally), and it is interesting to see it’s medicinal value explained in Western scientific terms.
2. Your comment: ‘ they have had reallly serious injury issues since he left”
Causation or correlation? Nash: 39 years old, breaks leg in a minor collision; Kobe: 34 years old, plays unprecedented minutes guarding opponents point guards, then blows out his achilles; Xavier Henry suffers knee and other assorted injuries, leading to many missed games.
The first two players are injured because of advanced age and overuse in a demanding system. The third player has a history of injury, and tends to throw his big body at the rim and takes hard falls. Those are a ton of the missed games between those three. My point is it is easier and more likely to attribute those injuries to the reasons I mention than the loss of Alex McKenchie (which I lament).
Renato: I agree there is middling talent like Ryan Kelley in Europe (see the Serbian national team), but are they going to come over for a NBA 2nd round pick contract when they can make more in Europe? Are the Eastern European players English speakers and can they adapt to the U.S. culture (the Russian players have notably failed at doing so)? Point is, it’s more complicated than talent. Ryan Kelly is an excellent pick for the position he was drafted as his rookie numbers show.
pat oslon says
Vets getting first dibs but the young guns will get more than enough shine in the long run.
JB says
I imagine Nash will play 6-7 minutes at the start of each half and 3-4 minutes in the 2nd and 4th, with Lin taking the bulk of the remaining PG minutes, and Clarkson providing extra/foul trouble minutes, along with spot Kobe duty when Young is on the floor with him.
I really like that second unit as it stands. Start them, give them a league-average bench and they’d be better than last year’s team. Not saying much, but they offer a pretty complete change-of-pace lineup with some good flexibility at the 1-3 and 3/4 and 4/5 spots.
If there was any assurance Emeka Okafor would be healthy this year and could be gotten for cheap, he’d really shore up the C position, even if he just played spot minutes.
Let’s be realistic, though–without a series of lucky breaks they’ll be in a dogfight for a low playoff seed. If Kobe and Nash play 65 or more games each, and Lin keeps improving, the outlook improves dramatically (no higher than 6, and even that would be a miracle). It’s even better if Randle can step in and really contribute quickly–10/7 or 12/8 with non-terrible D would be fantastic for him. I’m sure he’ll get eaten alive for the first few weeks of training camp and the beginning of the season but he seems like a fast learner to me. He’ll be really fun in 10 years when he’s a cagey vet.
KO says
So my choices are root for Serbia and my wife’s 30 Serbian friends Sunday or the USA!
To eat at home or drive through’s the next month is the question?
bryan S. says
rr, Renato,Robert: replies to you guys, stuck in mod.
rr says
Causation or correlation
Don’t know for sure, obviously. But you are leaving some stuff out: Farmar missed a lot of time as well, as did both Pau and Blake. Blake also missed a lot of time in 2013. During the season last year, people who were defending the FO and D’Antoni, here and elsewhere, were using injuries as the main line of defense, including the nagging day-to-day stuff. Farmar came back from the hamstring problem and got hurt again soon after. There are still people at other sites, and a couple here, using that defense now.
We don’t know if there is a correlation. We do know that the Lakers made a lot of changes in their medical and training staffs and have had a lot of injury problems since they did so. Gary Vitti has been around forever and is a Lakers Legend in his own way, but it may be time for another change. Meanwhile, Dallas and Dan San Antonio, two teams with several old guys, are making use of new injury prevention analytics, a paradigm which includes McKechnie, are doing very well health-wise.
Also, recall at the time that many people argued very strenuously that there was not necessarily a correlation between Kobe’s stratospheric MPG numbers and his Achilles blowing out.
I am not claiming knowledge here. I am claiming that the evidence on the issue does not make the FO look very good.
J C says
I like Beasley at the 3.
Any news there?
KO says
Well if you question the front office go look up Jeannie Buss twitter page and tell me if that is photo appropriate for a basketball exec. Don’t want to be a prude but between Jimmy the hat and that photo I am not feeling confident.
What’s next Mitch in a selfie Speedo?
Aaron says
This starting lineup makes the most sense if you’re trying to lose as many games as possible which the Lakers are most likley trying to do. If you’re trying to win games Steve Nash does not get on the court at all as he will be the Lakers fourth best PG. Boozer meanwhile is the Lakers second or third best PF (maybe 4th best if you count Hill). So far things are looking good for keeping the draft pick. The more minutes for Nash and Boozer the better.
Terri says
KO: Well if you question the front office go look up Jeannie Buss twitter page and tell me if that is photo appropriate for a basketball exec. Don’t want to be a prude but between Jimmy the hat and that photo I am not feeling confident.
—
The Buss kids are just begging us not to take them seriously. If they act this way in public you can only imagine what goes on behind the curtain.
mud says
Ko-you’re worried that the old picture is “inappropriate”? hahahahaha!
Terri-it doesn’t matter if we take the Buss kids seriously or not. if you or anyone else wants to jump ship, go ahead. they don’t own us.
i’ve been a Laker fan since Jack Kent Cooke, even after Wilt and West retired and we had those awful teams led by the enemy of all enemies, Kareem Abdul Jabbar. eventually the Lakers got Magic and Kareem became a Laker hero and everything turned around. the reason things got better is that no matter the owner, there’s always been a desire to have a good team. eventually it happened. LA has the resources and the pressure is on to succeed. if the Lakers never succeed, then Lakers fans will have to suck it up, just like Cleveland Browns fans.
right now, we’re just clearing out all the bandwagoners and i’m ok with that.
JohnnyP says
We should start Kobe as it is important to inject him into the game when everyone is warming up. Putting him in mid game will increase the chances for injury. And Vitti has been nursing injuries, without healing, for decades now.
I like JB’s suggestion of keeping Nash out until the 3rd. Because, as Aaron intimated, Nash may not be as good as Linn at this point. Nash can then, at least, provide a new attack and rest for Linn.
And, we should keep Linn on the floor much more than Nash because, as smoothaswilkes said, if we don’t nurture some new talent this year, we’re in long-term trouble. Getting a few more wins out of an declining Nash doesn’t make long-term sense. GO LINN.
GOOOooooOOOOOO LAKERS !!!
KO says
Mud I never saw it before. I would be king of like my having a twitter photo with open bottles of wine passed out on the floor in my underware.
Sure my sales people would respect me tons.
Can we just lose or wine with respect!
rr says
i’ve been a Laker fan since Jack Kent Cooke, even after Wilt and West retired and we had those awful teams led by the enemy of all enemies, Kareem Abdul Jabbar.
—
The teams when Kareem was there and Magic wasn’t went 40-42, 53-29, 45-37, and 47-35. Not great–but a long way from 27-55 and certainly not awful. Last year’s team had the worst record the franchise has seen since coming to LA.
Also, while Kareem was a rival from the Bucks days, he also had the UCLA ties.
mud says
rr-so after those epic battles with Wilt, Lakers fans loved Kareem because he went to UCLA? no.
he became loved after time, well at least among the fans i knew. it’s not like any of that stuff that i or any other fan from back then thought matters. anyway, last year’s team wasn’t any worse. last year’s team just had a worse record because of all the injuries. when a team is down to 5 players in a game, there are just too many injuries to win. you don’t have to agree with me. there’s a very good chance you aren’t old enough to remember much from the ’70’s.
KO, you never saw the Playboy spread? that was one of the photos, and one of the most demure ones. she was quite a hottie back then and she’s proud of it. i assure you that all of her business contacts have seen that photo and a whole lot more about her…assets…
BigCitySid says
Nash & Kobe or Lin & Kobe…regardless, the ball will have to keep moving, Kobe has to allow the pg to control the offense
rr says
rr-so after those epic battles with Wilt, Lakers fans loved Kareem because he went to UCLA? no.
Didn’t say they “loved” him. But it’s not like he was Bill Russell, either. And no, I don’t remember much of the 70s, I am not that old. But memories, like the eye test, have their flaws, as your characterization of those teams as “awful” demonstrates.
rr says
last year’s team just had a worse record because of all the injuries. when a team is down to 5 players in a game
—
We have covered this, but in any case, the 2013-14 team’s record is on the books, and was far worse than any of the teams from 1976-79. The post-West pre-Kareem team went 30-52 in 1974-75.
mud says
rr- and so? yes, the pre Kareem post West team was 30-52. i liked a LOT of those players. i liked them when Kareem arrived, too. it just wasn’t the same as the previous teams that went to the finals 3 out of 4 years.
there’s no crying in basketb- oh wait, that’s another movie. never mind.
nobody has good luck ALL the time. not even the Lakers…make no mistake, it is good fortune that ultimately wins championships. of course, the players and coaches must be capable of doing the job, but the NBA is littered with people who are capable of doing the job, including this year’s model. the better the players, the less luck needed, but still it’s luck that is the ultimate arbiter. if you’re a biblical type, “victory is the Lord’s” is one way to express that. good fortune trumps stats, or as Han Solo would say, “lucky IS good”.
none of this is related to rooting for a team. that’s just something you do or don’t do.
Fern says
I dont care if Nash starts or not, even if he’s healthy Lin should get the bulk of minutes anyways it really makes no difference who starts at least to me, about Boozer starting, like him or not he is a veteran and he should get the nod over Julius unless Julius game is more matured and NBA ready than any of us think. Im positive he will be a starter but i dont know if he is ready for this season. Would be awesome if he is.
Tre says
The Buss kids are morons. The Lakers won’t be championship caliber until they take a back seat and hire people who know what they are doing.
mud says
the Buss kids may be morons, but they have definitely hired people that know what they are doing.
J C says
Are we really passing on Beasley?
This is a guy we once traded Fisher for but missed the trade deadline by minutes.
I’m surprised.
This is the type of high reward / low risk deal that Dr. Buss would have made in a heartbeat.
I’m disappointed by the conservative approach being taken by Mitch and Jim here.
JB says
The world needs a team with Beasley and Nick Young on it.
Fern says
Nick Young is goffy in an endearing way, Beasley is just a moron, if the Heat passed on him for Shawne freaking Williams who we all know is a bum and a roster filling body why in the hell would the Lakers would want to sign him? Thats a 100 foot long red flag. He has burned bridges wherever he is been. No thank you, big pass.
rr says
but the NBA is littered with people who are capable of doing the job, including this year’s model.
—
The NBA is not a league of Cinderellas or miracles. It is mostly a league of stars. The history of the league teaches us this very clearly. Jack Kent Cooke and Jerry Buss both understood this; that is why Cooke and Co. got Wilt and Kareem and why Buss and Co. got Shaq. There have been teams that won with balance and several very good-to-excellent players–the 1970-73 Knicks, the 1988-90 Pistons, the 2004-06 Pistons, and some would say that the 2012-14 Spurs. But mostly teams that have a Top 5 player win the titles. That has been true from Mikan to James.
—
As to Beasley, I agree with Aaron: the Lakers already have enough mediocre SFs, and they seem to have a 3/4 Tweener type in Randle (which may be a positive–we will see). But with Henry, Johnson, Young, Randle, and Kobe already on the roster and all likely to see some time at the 3, I see no basketball reasons to bring in Michael Beasley.
mud says
rr- i like the way you make the obvious sound profound.
here’s something else that’s obvious. no team has won a championship without a few role players that excelled. the Lakers have a superstar that knows how to win. he makes 24million dollars. he is still a powerhouse until he proves otherwise, once and for all. i bet after he gets his sea legs, he will punish any team that doesn’t double-team him. for the first time in a long time, the Lakers have multiple threats to create a shot. there aren’t a lot of positives, but there are positives that can be exploited. it’s not that i’m expecting a whole lot though. i am not ready to throw in the towel before the season starts either. really, everyone has become an expert regarding Kobe and Nash’s physical condition. it’s really just as likely that they are both as close to 100% as they have been in the last 5 years as it is that they are completely broken, based on the amount of data visible.
i don’t care about the odds. i have plenty of time to be disappointed when the games are actually lost. right now, the Lakers are a team in the running if they just get a break. what kind of break? i don’t know. life often is surprising.
i agree with rr’s assessment of Beasley. there really aren’t any basketball reasons to pick him up.
J C says
rr:
I see no basketball reasons to bring in Michael Beasley.
___
Rr,
we bring in a Beasley because he’s inexpensive and has huge potential upside.
He is a natural scorer. More offensively efficient than Swaggy P,
i would guess, and I haven’t even checked percentages.
And because Kobe is a 2, if he even stays healthy, and X Henry isn’t even gonna start the season on the active list, and Randle is probably a 4.
The way I see the roster, Young comes off the bench at the 2 or 3,
and Wesley Johnson is currently our only healthy 3.
And I’m not all that enamored of Wes’ game.
Beasley is a potential 20 ppg guy given minutes,
and I would start him at the 3.
That would give me:
Nash (Lin)
Kobe (Young)
Beasley (Wes)
Boozer (Randle)
Hill (Davis).
That is NOT the worst starting 5 in the league.
If MB blows out or gets in too much trouble off the court we cut him loose.
His upside far outweighs his downside potential.
rr says
we bring in a Beasley because he’s inexpensive and has huge potential upside.
—
Beasley will be 26 in January and has already been in the league six years. Based on some key metrics, he declined every year for four straight years after his rookie year. Statistically, he did bounce back some last year, but given how much Miami needed bench help last year, the fact that Spoelstra wouldn’t use him in the playoffs doesn’t speak well of Beasley.
His upside is probably average 3/4-8th man at this point in his career, and when you look at the Lakers’ roster, plus Beasley’s baggage, I am not seeing it. Even if Henry can’t play, I would rather that Scott give the minutes to Young, Johnson, Randle, Kelly and use Kobe some at the 3. If Young weren’t on the team, then I could see an argument for bringing in Beasley. But Young has, amazingly, along with Randle, the longest contract on the Lakers (and Randle’s deal, unlike Young’s, includes team options). A starting 5 of Nash/Kobe/Beasley/Boozer/Hill would probably be one of the worst defensive starting 5s in recent memory, and would have no future at all. I do not believe that any other bad team in the NBA would consider exchanging their five starters for those five guys.
JohnnyP says
rr,
“The NBA is not a league of Cinderellas or miracles,” except for one Jeremy Linnsanity Linn!!!
GOOOoooOOOOOO LAKERS !!!!!
Vasheed says
Rr,
I would sign Beasley. I think the offensive games of Hill, Randle, and Beasley would mesh well together. Hill mops up under the rim, Randle plays from mid range in, and Beasley from mid range out. On defense Randle and Beasley are both somewhat undersized at PF but fast enough for SF. I think Beasley would likely defend the pf position better then Randle. Niether one would i regard as great defensively. But i do think with the extra size at SF the trio of Hill, Randle, and Beasley would play better team defense.
As I’m writing this i find it striking how much Randle reminds me of Beasley.
BigCitySid says
Many here don’t care for ESPN’s views on the Lakers. Well NBA.com has published an off season report card on all 30 teams. Our Lakers shared the worst grade given, a “D” with the Pacers and 76ers.
http://www.nba.com/reportcard/offseason/2014/lakers/index.html
BM says
Interesting to note that Aron Baynes is reportedly up for grabs via sign-and-trade with the Spurs. A 27-year-old 6-10 / 260 lbs Center, very big body to fill up the paint. Limited athleticism but showed really nice touch around the rim in the FIBA World Cup. In fact, during the tournament he averaged 17/7, and had impressive performances against NBA talent such as Omer Asik and Jonas Valanciunas.
Played in 53 games with the Spurs last season, but only averaged 9-10 minutes. Apparently they’ve got too many on the roster, hence the desire to trade. Currently a restricted free agent. There’s definitely going to be other NBA teams interested.
As a big, strong body, I feel like he would complement Hill and Davis well, who are more athletic but arguably slightly under-weight for the 5 position.
Definitely an improvement over Sacre.
Having said that, our most pressing need is probably another wing to play the 3.
Stuart says
The Lakers played Homerun Derby this past summer and failed miserably. OK, I get it – with Kobe on the team it made sense to swing for the fences and try to catch lightning in a bottle in an effort to be competitive.
The real test will come at the trade deadline and off season. Those who should know, ESPN/NBA.com are all projecting the Lakers to be far out of the playoff race. By this season’s trade deadline we should know if this team in the hunt or not.
So if the Lakers’ season is tracking to be as bad as last year does the FO sell everything that is not nailed down in an effort to accumulate picks or doe they sit on their hands like last year? Additionally, do the Lakers play the Derby again this summer or do they sign very good but not great FAs like Monroe and Bledsoe?
bryan S. says
BM: Diff between Baynes and Sacre is negligible. My guess (not looking it up), is that Sacre’s contract serves the Laker’s cap plan better than Bayne’s contract does. Also, Spurs aren’t going to give up on any player with better than bottom tier value. . . .
Mud on rr : ” I like the way you make the obvious sound profound. ”
Hilarious.
bryan S. says
http://fansided.com/2014/09/15/maxxis-leaving-houston-rockets-jeremy-lins-los-angeles-lakers/
Many dimensions to the Lin acquisition. The most important one will be what he brings to the court (where I believe he will make the biggest impact of all the new players this season).
Good for the Lakers: a legit starter, a pick, and additional revenue for the Buss family.
rr says
Bryan S,
Make a deal with you: Let’s not talk. My opinion of you and your posts is about the same as yours of me and mine appears to be.
Mud,
As long as you keep saying the Lakers have a shot, I may feel the need to remind you of some obvious NBA historical truths. Also, I don’t think you should be bagging on people for stating the obvious/lacking profundity when you are saying stuff like this:
“what kind of break? i don’t know. life often is surprising.”
mud says
rr-it is obvious that the Lakers need something really special to happen, that they don’t have even close to the strongest roster this year. it’s also obvious that things can happen that are unexpected. i didn’t bag on anyone. until they fail, they have a shot, even if it’s a long shot.
life isn’t surprising?
T. Rogers says
“So if the Lakers’ season is tracking to be as bad as last year does the FO sell everything that is not nailed down in an effort to accumulate picks or doe they sit on their hands like last year?”
Stuart,
Logic says they have a fire sale. However, due to Kobe (and some say the Time Warner deal) the Lakers have to give the appearance of “trying” to be competitive. So even if they are far out of the playoff race near the deadline they still stand pat. But the possibility of losing next year’s pick to the Suns may force them to make a deal to get back into the first round.
I hate saying it, but I don’t expect them to make the playoffs. In fact, I expect them to be comfortably out of the playoff picture by the trade deadline. So I do hope they flip both Hill and Lin for a couple of first round picks. But that would be a little too obvious.
AusPhil says
As a teacher, that NBA.com report card appals me. Those grades would lead to a C at worst. How they pull a D at the end baffles me, unless they’re wildly weighting the grade for Defense.
While we’re talking about the talking heads, it was kind of nice to only see 1 Laker in the bottom 100 players on the ESPN rank. Sadly there will not be many (any?) in the true upper echelons either.
bryan S. says
Let’s not talk.
You are free, of course, to ignore my posts. As for me, I will continue to read and comment on what I choose to–including your posts–which I enjoy for different reasons–including your penchant for pedantry. Mud poked a little gentle fun at you, and I enjoyed his wit. No biggie. Robert poked fun at me for my sloppy writing. No biggie.
You post a lot in a relentlessly trenchant manner that invites responses–not always to your liking. Sorry if I offended you. Peace.
rr says
T Rogers,
I am not sure that Lin and Hill could fetch late 1st-rounders, but it bears watching. I am also not sure if the team option for YR 2 of Hill’s deal goes along with him if they move him, but if it does, that means that Lin and Hill represent 17M in expiring money, as well as being useful players. So, if something big were to happen at the deadline, it would probably involve those two guys.
LakerFanatic says
Sorry but do not start Nash…Boozer is fine but Nash is going to likely be sitting out games on back to backs and seeing how his Laker injury history has gone that means we shouldn’t count on him for more than about 45 games this year. Let the starters come together and get the experience of playing off each other instead of trying to change the lineups every other day. Its bad enough Kobe won’t be playing a full 82 games and someone will have to step in but it can’t be like that for 40-60% of the starting roster.
mud says
if the Lakers decide that Beasley will help the team, i will definitely cheer for him. there aren’t any issues with his weed use. there are issues with his attitude and with his choices in life, at least in the recent past.
i can’t help but laugh at the idea that Beasley will make a losing team into a winning team, but again, it’s my opinion that he won’t.
Chearn says
Just because Miami gave up on Beasley does not define him as a basketball player. However, Beasley was not a victim of getting lost on a team due to revolving-door coaches, systems, and teammates. He has had ample opportunity to gain traction on several teams in the NBA and has failed at every stop. What makes a stop with the Lakers unique? The lack of pressure in Los Angeles? Or is it because he won’t be pressed to attain a high degree of efficiency by the team’s alpha dog? Or is it due to the new coach not having practices that are well-documented as being intense?
Blunt smoking is as symptomatic of the culture in basketball as steroid use is in football and baseball, so that in and of itself is not a factor for foregoing Beasley joining the team. It’s simple the Lakers brand is in disarray, and they do not need another detractor to diminish the brand further. Moreover, the Lakers really need to procure two-way players. Either that or stand pat!
rr says
so everyone here thinks he’s horrible, immature, and can’t play basketball anymore
—
Nah. He is just a six-year veteran who is not an especially good player, and duplicates skills that the Lakers already have. Again, Aaron nailed this: the Lakers already have mediocre small forwards.
Same thing with Boozer: Boozer is not useless, and he could help a contender in the right role. But I don’t see the point in having him on this team.
BigCitySid says
Andray Blatche, 6′ 11, 235 lbs, 28 years old, unrestricted free agent is who the Lakers need to sign. Yes, he’s considered a knucklehead, but he’s also better than any player 6’10 or taller that the Lakers have. Not the best defender, but can score. PERs of 21.9 & 18.8 last 2 years w/ the Nets.
Easily the best unrestricted free agent left on the market…can fill a need the Lakers have, and at this point they can probably get him at a discount.
bryan S. says
Boozer: I don’t see the point in having him on this team.
Here’s a few reasons why the Lakers want him: skilled veteran big man on a relatively cheap 1 year deal. Brings depth to the bigs, excellent teammate, professional demeanor, will be very good in the pick and roll with Lin, could help mentor Randle and other young players, should play well with Kobe in the two man game, motivated to play well for his next contract, will help create competition for minutes.
No one gets excited about adding a declining Boozer. But he has value to this team.
Big City Sid: Agree with you on Blatche. My guess is that his agent believes he deserves a better deal than what he can get right now. Hence the impasse on a talented guy with baggage.
KO says
I am a harsh credit. But I think ESPN and other groups are off. This team is better in 3 spots this year.
Meeks, Williams, and Mr Air ball.
Vs
Kobe, Boizer and Lin.
The bench would beat last years starters and the coach will not be called clown like Mike.
40 years a fan and I will stake my rep( for what’s it’s worth) that this year team is 15 games better this year.
Maybe more if Randel and Clarkson can play. Last year rookies were bottom of the barrel picks.
Save this post so you can call me
brillent by years end.
rr says
KO,
No offense, buddy, but you loudly proclaimed last year’s team to be a 47-win squad in preseason.
J C says
Ko
I’ll go out on a limb and call you ‘brillent’ right now!
J C says
let’s kick this horse just a bit more.
Some of us, including the routinely brilliant and reasonable Vasheed, and
the youthfully exuberant Chris J, like myself, see the value in a Beasley.
I am a pretty intense Laker fan, but I haven’t really ‘followed’ Beasley’s career.
Yes, apparently he has had a few stops to gain traction in the league.
It seems to me like a lot of guys flourish in some situations and not in others.
Lots of times we don’t even know what’s driving their success or failure.
In the case of Jordan Hill, for example, it was obvious that coach Dantoni didn’t care for him.
Hill had the unfortunate fate of playing for Dantoni on both coasts, and his minutes suffered.
In my opinion there wasn’t anything he did wrong to deserve the benchings he got.
What was wrong w Chris Kaman?
Nothing, apparently, since he got a pretty good contract in Portland after sitting on the bench all year here.
Jordan Farmar is a guy most of us enjoyed watching play, but for whatever reason he didn’t stick here the first time around, and later he didn’t stick in NJ either.
He then played overseas; now he’s back.
Will he be a productive player for the Clippers?
Probably. I’m a Farmar fan, btw.
Why isn’t Blatche getting more offers? Who knows?
Who knows what dictates these guys futures sometimes?
Most of us don’t, and we’re just guessing when we think we do.
Not everyone becomes a superstar.
Maybe a guy reminds a coach of someone who stole his girlfriend in high school,
or he mouths off to the coach or the GM on the wrong day,
or the coach is in love with another guy on the roster at the same position.
There are so many factors that take place behind the scenes that we’re not privy to that it’s hard to say most of the time. Miami not re-upping Bease isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement.
What I know about Beasley is that the Lakers wanted him a year or two ago and I don’t know what he’s done since then to disgrace himself.
I also like his nose for the basket, his rebounding and his ability to score.
Chances are that the Lakers want him for the league minimum and offered it,
he thinks he’s worth more and he’s still trying to get it.
Ok, I’ll quit talking about this guy now 🙂
BigCitySid says
@ Bryan S.
At this time only team talking to Blatche is Miami, but so far they are only offering the veteran minimum. Two year deal above minimum w/ a team option for a 3rd may just do it…if the Lakers are truly interested in making a playoff run.
Snoopy2006 says
So no Igor?
T. Rogers says
RR, and Aaron’s points on Beasley are spot on. I don’t know what he brings to the table that is not already there. BigCity’s comments on Blatche are more intriguing specifically because he brings something the team is sorely lacking: size.
Right now the Lakers will start a couple of 6’8″ or 6’9″ guys as PF and C. That will get them killed against most teams in the league. Beasley could have the best season of his career and it wouldn’t offset the glaring mismatches up front. Blatche isn’t great. But he is major improvement over what they have now.
Oldtimer says
Blatche 6’11”; Earl Clark 6’11” they are at least one inch taller than Hill and Davis, I guess if you populate the Lakers with more taller players somehow you compensate the lack of a Superstar Center in replacing Gasol. Lakers remain a bystander just like what they did when Monroe was creating noise to get out of Detroit or Ariza wanting a decent offer? Well, we don’t know the money angle there because Lakers has been skirting away from the luxury taxes repeater yet they were trying in vain to sign Melo for gargantuan salary or re-signing Dwight with another gargantuan offers with the help of classless banners. Is that not acquiescing to be in the luxury tax repeater too? What do you expect in hiring Scott if you don’t give him some supporting cast who are seasoned in the playoffs? How do you expect fans to be excited with the forthcoming season when we are handicapped by physical appearance of roster alone. Lakers have two seven footers, one is a stretch 4 trained by Dantoni and the other is a garbage 5 good for D’League or Summer League. Hey, I am a Laker fan and fanatics expect me to be a fan even in distress, it is all about the spirit, the passion, praying hard too that they will prevail despite handicaps. Just win baby and this will be the crowning glory for Jim Buss.
Darius Soriano says
Folks who pine for signing “size” while advocating for Blatche confuse me. Blatche is not a good defensive player and is only an average positional rebounder. If you watched any of the FIBA World Cup, you would have seen Blatche not rotating to the rim to help on penetration where he could use his size to block or contest shots while only being a somewhat interested rebounder. Blatche is also a guy who, last year on the Nets, was (reportedly) held out of four games due to a lack of conditioning and preparedness. http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/01/nets-wont-bring-back-free-agent-andray-blatche-next-season/comment-page-1/
There is a reason why guys like Blatche and Beasley, despite their possession of clear NBA level talent, remain unsigned. They are the types of players who, year after year, show that they are more trouble than they are worth. There are a portion of Lakers fans who want these guys mostly because they know who they are/have seen them play well or torch the Lakers/have a pedigree as a high draft pick/etc. But when you breakdown these players’ actual histories as performers and how they’ve moved from team to team (and how they are spoken of after they’re gone), it should be fairly clear why most teams only flirt with signing them before passing.
Darius Soriano says
Snoopy,
Correct. Looks like no Igor.
Pat says
And the Spurs are working out Beasley. Think they know something we don’t?
bryan S. says
Pat: Probably not. We are probably more risk adverse than the Spurs given the overall weakness of our roster and team culture at this time. Additionally, do the Lakers have any cap room to offer Beaze more than a non-guaranteed minimum deal? Can the Spurs offer more? Whomever he signs with, it will come down to money first, fit second.
And one more thing: Never pass on a guy named Igor.
Snoopy2006 says
Damn. Reading up on Igor had me optimistic, he seemed to hold real promise as an assistant.
The Spurs have the league’s best infrastructure and coach – the idea, presumably, would be that by carving out a very narrow niche for Beasley, Popovich’s intricate offensive system might be able to extract value and minimize his deficits. I would be absolutely astonished if the Lakers were to get any more out of Beasley than any of his previous teams. Context is everything.
Also, we worked out Beasley twice. By itself that means little.
Darius Soriano says
Pat,
The Lakers worked out Beasley twice — did they know something other teams didn’t? The Spurs, like the Lakers did, are probably just doing their due diligence. Now, if Beasley signs, we can start to expand the analysis but unless/until that happens, it’s just another workout by a guy looking to get a camp invite and make a roster.
T. Rogers says
Darius,
My comment about Blatche was not that he is the “answer” to the Lakers size problem. It was more of a comparison to going after him vs. going after Beasley. If you had to choose between two guys that no team seems to really want, go with the guy that at least theoretically fills a major need. Clearly Blatche has his issues. Guys his size don’t go this long in free agency unless something is not right. But its all a roll of the dice at this point. I just think the potential benefit to Blatche is better than the potential benefit of Beasley. And by benefit I only mean not seeing a lay up drill all game long by the opposing team.
Oldtimer says
Darius, we all know that Beasley or Blatche have issues, not a guarantee for Laker woes but they are the only ones available at Vet Min. Their talent or size may pan out maybe could be inspired by Scott coaching that would change their defense dynamics. We can also say Davis, Boozer are castaways from their previous teams but they are there in the Lakers roster. How about Earl Clark, did the Lakers compete against Memphis Grizz’? At this point, these players are projects, they are cheap and they were the last straws in the FA hat aside from D’League and Euro League. It still remains, Lakers has a gaping hole in the middle to be manned by 6’10” players. You expect them to stop Duncan, McGee, DeAndre, Bogut, Dwight…etc? Are our current Centers great defensive gems? Hill can only do so much, we saw him last year with Gasol or Kaman? Davis was not even a Center with Grizzlies in 2013 season that slot was occupied Marc Gasol, a 7’0″ and the sub is Kuofos, a 7’1″. My point is that it is better to have something there than a bunch of 6’10”.
ninjagorn says
The failed Beasley trade was 2 years ago and since then he has not done anything significant-no development, so i guess we were lucky that we did not trade get him. And the only thing he brings is scoring which we clearly do not need, if he could also play some defense… If SAS sign him it will be a minimum deal, probable non guaranteed, and they have shown in the past, that they do not have a problem with cutting a player even before the playoffs start if he does not fit their culture.
rr says
Never pass on a guy named Igor.
—
On this we agree.
JohnnyP says
Darius,
I really love the first sentence of your article, “We are about 3 weeks from the start of training camp and, soon enough, we will have actual Lakers basketball to discuss.”
YIPPIE YEAY YAY HAYYYYYYYYYYY!!!
ARE WE EXCITED OR WHAT????
LET ME HEAR IT MY LAKERS FAN FRIENDS!!!!!
GOOOOooooooOOOOOOOOO LAKERS !!!!!!
Robert says
Beasley: This guy is a combination of a vagabond (4 stops in 6 years) and a problem child (do I need to explain this one). We do not need or want him.
mud: I see we agree on Beasley. However, perhaps someone who disagrees with us would say: “It is possible that Beasley will be phenomenal, and I will choose to believe he will be until we see how he plays in the next season”.
rr: As usual the accuracy of your posts is more than some want to digest at this point. We are after all 0-0 and are tied for home court advantage throughout the playoffs. An obvious – yet extremely profound fact.
mud says
Robert-i wouldn’t argue with someone taking that position since i think it could be correct. i don’t see a need for him, but i would support him as a Laker if the team chose to employ him. i’d have to wait until he had played poorly in a number of games before i became down on him.
Chris J says
let’s kick this horse just a bit more.
Some of us, including the routinely brilliant and reasonable Vasheed, and
the youthfully exuberant Chris J, like myself, see the value in a Beasley.
————
Gotta be a typo there, J C. I suspect you mixed up the Y and the J, because I’ve posted numerous times on this site my belief that Beasley offers nothing but the likelihood he’ll disrupt the foundation Scott is hopefully going to place this season. I want no part of that guy being associated with the Lakers.
Chris Y’s the one who favors the guy, and downplays Beasley’s past troubles. And many of his comments, which you call “youthfully exuberant” I’d describe as ill-thought, naive or worse. He’s taken shots at my posts, too, so it’s safe to say Chris Y and I only share a first name and interest in the Lakers; our opinions couldn’t be more different.
BigCitySid says
Darius I’m familiar w/ Blatche’s pros & cons. And I agree w/ you pertaining to his rebounding & “D”. Blatche’s stronger point is his low post offense, better than any other present Laker. This team needs a big low post scorer who if nothing else can keep an opponent’s center occupied when the Lakers are on offense.
Fern says
I will miss a massive chunk of this season because im going to the Middle East again. I dont know if i should be sad or happy that i be missing a whole lot of the season including the entire playoffs. This has been scheduled for a while but this ISIL thing sure pick up a hell of a time to flare up. Depending on the conditions i might be able to catch a game ocassionally, if we somehow made the playoffs i will find a way to watch them. Funny story in ’10 i got up everynight at 3am to watch that run, all alone in a rec room with a 55″ tv not bad lol i could scream cuss and jump at my leasure lo, some of my soldiers rooted against the Lakers just to piss me off and when the Lakers lost a playoff game they put the score in a big board, i did the same when we won, the day we won i put the score so big that it barely fit the board and that day the top of my uniform was my Lakers 24 Jersey and the biggest cigar i could find. Made them do a ton of pushups too for presuming to doubt the Lakers haha, have the pictures of me with the Jersey and the cigar and i have another of them doing pushups and me holding a sign that said “Lakers b2b #16 and counting” while they beat their faces. Priceless that was a moment of great joy. I dont think its going to be the same result this time around but of course i be following the best i can. Go Lakers!!!!
BigCitySid says
September 12, 2014 Update on Andray Blatche via HoopsHype:
“Blatche was not just a hit on the court at the World Cup, but also with his teammates, says team capatain Jimmy Alapag. “The type of relationships he built with the guys on the team in one month and a half and the effort in games and practices really said a lot about Andray,” Alapag told HoopsHype. “We were on the road together for about a month. That helped a lot to build that camaraderie and get to know Andray better. He was committed to the program from Day 1 and I think it showed.” HoopsHype
Rumors tagsAndray Blatche, Philippines, World Cup, Jimmy Alapag
Share on FacebookShare on TwitterSubscribe to HoopsHype rumors
HoopsHype
“We all knew [the baggage] was there, but it was a long time ago and we didn’t want to judge Andray by what happened, but on his performance and his attitude and his committment. I was really happy with his approach to joining a team on such short notice and really fighting out there with the rest of us.” HoopsHype
Rumors tagsAndray Blatche, Philippines, World Cup, Jimmy Alapag
– See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors/tag/andray_blatche#sthash.anrSR7lk.dpuf
gene says
New thread soon?….
bryan S. says
http://www.si.com/nba/2014/top-100-nba-players-2015-list#10to1
Forget the ESPN ranking garbage. This is an infinitely better read with great player capsules.
You may disagree with the rankings (everyone does) but the writing is first rate.
Fern says
6 years on the league, burned bridges wherever he is been, Miami choosed Shawne over him and he is inmature on and off the court lazy and unfocused not say by me but the people that he worked for, and he just need to get “traction”? please, at this stage if he quacks like a duck…
Robert says
mud: Agreed again. So what we are saying (correct me if I am wrong). We do not want Beasley. If we do sign him we will root for him and give him a chance. If he does not perform – we might be “down on him” at that time. However the Beasley supporter could still argue with us and say – we have not given him enough of a chance, could he not? And because we were not fans of Beasley would this make us lesser Laker fans than the Beasley fanatic? You see how this could apply to other discussions can you not?
Darius Soriano says
Yes, Gene, soon. Been sort of swamped lately but do want to get on to other topics.
R says
Funny all the commentary about beasley.
Don’t see signing or passing on him as particularly significant either way.
Doubt the Spurs would be able to make him blossom; but let ’em try!
mud says
Robert-no, i can’t see this expanded like that. reductio ad absurdum is always just a way to obscure things. i don’t see any reason that a Laker fan isn’t allowed to be critical. there’s a difference between criticism and just plain negativity. this coming year’s team might look weak at this point(it does!), but the games haven’t even started yet.
but then, my name is mud…
rr says
Minnesota is going after Bledsoe:
With just days before the start of training camp, the Minnesota Timberwolves are making a final push to acquire restricted free-agent guard Eric Bledsoe in a sign-and-trade with the Phoenix Suns, sources told ESPN.com.Fruitless contract talks with the Suns soured point guard Eric Bledsoe’s appetite for playing in Phoenix. The Wolves are offering Bledsoe the four-year, $63 million maximum level contract that he has been seeking, sources said, but because of cap restrictions, the only way he can join the team as currently constructed is through a sign-and-trade deal.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11553530/minnesota-timberwolves-offer-eric-bledsoe-max-contract-sign-trade-phoenix-suns
JohnnyP says
Fern,
Just curious. Can you not get the NBA / the Lakers in the Middle East?
I live in Korea and – time zones aside – it is not easy to get to the Lakers. I wish the NBA League Pass wouldn’t have geographic restrictions. But, I guess it is the NATIONAL basketball league.
Come on guys LET’S SHARE SOME EXCITEMENT!!
GOOOOOooOOOOO LAKERS !!!!
J C says
Fern –
Thank you for your service.
Chris Y and J –
my apologies for the typo.
Fern says
@johnnyP i could but that depends where i end up, which i have no clue yet, even in the best of circunstances the time diference is a pain, if i end up in a cozy base with all the amnemities best case scenario is watching Sunday afternoon games which would be like 1030 pm overthere, local games? Basically out of the question bc it would be like 630am and thats in a nice base, in a stinkhole? It would be like 1000% more dificult i was in Basrah in ’10 and it was a nice base and still could only watch like 8 games the entire regular season, in the playoffs i started watching from the WCF onwards at the cost of a lot of beauty sleep lol but i did catch the game when Pau tipped that ball that knocked out OKC, but if we somehow make the playoffs and i can watch, i will, who need stinking sleep anyways?BTW i was in Korea on 2000-01 in Camp Red Cloud out of Uijeongbu . It was a pain to watch the games then too bit they grace us with repeats. As long as i have internet i be here talking it up without knowing anything lol.
JohnnyP says
Fern,
Thanks for your service. Glad you got some time at my loved and adopted homeland, Korea.
And, yes, the time zone thing is a killer. It was actually fun when I lived in NYC. YOu’d go out late and see a Lakers game with a bunch of LA ex=pats and the game ended at 1:30 am. Wow. But, here the timing is all whacky – even if league pass was available.
That’s why I stay in in the loop with my FB&G Lakers family!
GOOOooOOOO LAKERS !!!
Chearn says
Awesome, Fern, you are my hero, and a Lakers fanatic to boot, it just doesn’t get any better than that.
Lakers Nation we’re close. I need to know the team is developing players for the next phase and have a blueprint for the future. To that end, the Lakers need defense, team continuity, to play hard every quarter, and share the ball on offense.
Indeed, Let’s Go!
rr says
Andray Blatche to China. (Xinjiang Guanghui Flying Tigers)