After losing to the Spurs on Friday night, the Lakers are off to a 1-8 start to the season. This is the worst start in franchise history. In other words, things couldn’t get much worse.
Oh wait. Did I say that out loud?
Early reports are that Kobe will try to play tonight, but after suffering from the flu over the last couple of days, that is not a certainty. My guess is that he’s in the lineup, but after dealing with these issues in the Spurs game and being decidedly ineffective — to the point that he mentioned after the game that not being able to push through his illness and play up to a certain standard was something he was not used to — who knows if this is even a good idea. After all, as I noted on twitter (look to the right hand sidebar if you don’t know what I’m talking about), it’s the coach’s job to recognize if a player is up to performing and then sitting him down if he is not. Allowing him to fail — and do so spectacularly in a nationally televised game — was the opposite of that.
In any event, a closer eye on Kobe will be needed in this game and if he’s not up to playing well, the Lakers’ slim chances to win this game will be downgraded even further. Counting the preseason, this game will be the 4th time these teams have faced off this year and every single time the Warriors have shown to be the vastly superior team. Thinking that could change tonight with a potentially hampered Kobe wouldn’t be wise.
What this leaves is a very good Warriors team and a banged up Lakers’ team squaring off. If this doesn’t sound very exciting to you, I don’t blame you. To be honest, the things I am most interested in aren’t even X’s and O’s or how the Lakers can make this game competitive, but rather whether Byron Scott starts to make small tweaks to his rotations to try and get some of his younger players on the floor for longer stretches.
For example, Ryan Kelly is now back and healthy enough to play. And while Carlos Boozer has been putting up some good numbers of late, I would not mind seeing Kelly steal some of those minutes to see if he can contribute to the team’s offense and altering the team’s spacing on that end. Sure, Scott could decide to play Kelly some at SF, but his best position is still at big forward and the only way you get him on the floor more is at the expense of the veteran Boozer. The same is also true of Jordan Clarkson. Against the Spurs with Ronnie Price serving his one game suspension for his flagrant foul the previous game, Clarkson got some minutes at back up PG and looked alright. He still has a lot of learning to do, but the best place to get that experience is in games against live defenses. Might as well give him some burn at the expense of Price rather than simply keeping the rook at the end of the bench.
Ed Davis also needs more burn, whether at Center (hopefully with Kelly flanking him at PF) or at PF next to either Hill or Sacre. Davis has proven to be the team’s most efficient player to start the year and that’s not by accident or, really, a fluke. Davis isn’t going to wow you or overwhelm opponents with his skill set. But he is going to work hard and play well within his skill level while not being wasteful of his offensive opportunities. Further, he’s the team’s best (and most dynamic) defensive player who has shown an ability to play well within Byron Scott’s scheme. At this point, the only thing holding him back is his foul rate but he’ll need more minutes to sort that out so he can learn to play without fouling.
Again, I don’t think it’s going out on a limb to say that the Lakers will be hard pressed to win this game. With that being the case, why not start to try and grow some of the younger players and let them get their feet wet by playing some more minutes. I’m not talking about throwing these players to the wolves — as with the Kobe discussion above, I think Scott will need to monitor these players’ minutes and try to put them in positions to succeed — but some extra, controlled, burn wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. Maybe it happens tonight. At least I hope it does.
chris henderson says
hey.. for Warren!
seriously though… I think the Kobe being under the weather can be a blessing in disguise. Coach needs to seriously give KB tons of rest, (or so it appears that way) but in reality, it’s a chance to let the other guys find their way into shaping up AS A TEAM! when Kobe is on the floor there is always the knowledge that he’s there for the bail out, or they give him the ball early in the clock, and then stand around. what this team needs is to learn to be a team WITHOUT KB, then once they’ve found that, learn to integrate KB into the mix. I recall other times when Kobe had to sit for some reason and lo and behold the “rest of the team” rose to the occasion. This team can be a better team but when Kobe is out there, they just can’t find the rhythm necessary to be a team, a team who passes, cuts, knows each other, etc. I think it’ll be easier to get this team to learn to be a team without KB, then integrate him back in, than for the team to try to learn to be a team with him on the floor.
just my humble opinion…
gene says
To be guaranteed a top 5 pick next season.What place does the Lakers have to finish in the League????.. Does 5th worse record guarantee no worse then the 5th pick?….Thanks for the answer!!!
Ko says
For those who wondered why Hill never got minutes in the past.
1-Lazy-last guy down court over and over.
1-Not close to defending any center in NBA
1-Other then 1st two games he is shooting 20% outside.
He is a 2nd teamer getting all-star pay.
Another nice Dimmy move. But then again our starting SF is Mess Johnson so “go figure”.
Tim says
3 Lakers scored in the first quarter lead by Kobe’s 17 points, 7 Warriors scored, yes the Lakers are trailing Golden State.
lakafan says
With shaq courtside, Kb going for 50 tonite. Too bad it will be on 45 shots!
Tim says
Looks like Ryan Kelly re-aggravated his hamstring on a nice drive for a layup.
Archon says
I’d expect Byron Scott to make major changes to the rotation next game, right now it just isn’t working.
If I were him I’d consider starting Price and Davis, Lin looks horrible next to Kobe and Hill just isn’t a very good defender against starting centers
JB says
Draymond “The Headhunter” Green.
rr says
I didn’t realize that Henry and Clarkson were just playing one DLeague game and then coming back. My bad.
reggyray says
This is getting-hit-in-the-eye game.
Ko says
They just keep getting worse.
And worse
And worse
They fired Brown for less.
lakafan says
Did they ever make teenwolf 2? If not, we’re watching it tonite with kb starring as Michael j fox. On pace for 48 shots. BS is one lame coach, can’t control kb either. Jimmy that’s 3strikes on coaching hires, you’re outta here!!
Chearn says
Speights is all-world against the Lakers but horrible against the rest of the league.
gene says
Since Kobe is a ball hog….the whole team is doing it.Bad Basketball.
Chris J says
When the Lakers were in their 2004-05, post-Phil, post-Shaq nadir, Kobe was still the league’s best player — and even then I found it hard to watch that team by the latter part of the season. One can only take so much Chris Mihm, Brian Grant and Tierre Brown without losing one’s mind.
Looking back, even that team was more enjoyable than this season’s mess. The supposed hope that Kobe would be the draw for fans’ interest only goes so far, and these Lakers are nearing the unwatchable state prior to Thanksgiving. Time Warner Cable Sportsnet’s only watchable programming consists of Lakers’ nostalgia shows — with Randle out, there isn’t anything about this year’s team that makes me feel like I should tune in, aside from 30 years of habitual behavior.
Dark times indeed.
Ko says
Talent is one thing.
But at sime point.
Isen”t Scott a large part of this crud?
If Pops coached this, no way they are this bad.
Of course he would never have Johnson, Boozer, Lin starting ever. Nor would be allow Kobe to shoot 40 times.
Lakers, Scott, Buss and Mitch are becoming laughing stock of NBA. West and Shaquille must be laughing hardest.
By far worst team in Laker history,
dxmanners says
115 points after three quarters? Ouch.
Have to admit, I’m watching this with one eye only, can’t really take it at the moment.
Not in the face!!
Anonymous says
This is just bad basketball. The Lakers are terrible. Keeping that top 5 pick is looking more and more like a lock.
Kris says
They can get right back in it if Kobe shoots more. He’s very efficient.
Archon says
Lin looks bad on both ends. Linsanity seems like a lifetime ago…
Barath says
@gene : It’s called the lottery for a reason. There is no guarantee, no matter how bad the lakers do. The worse they stink, the better the odds.
Jerke says
MDA didnt know it but Mitch not giving him that extension was the best thing that couldve happened to him. Given that Pau is basically a non-entity on defense, MDA and Scott basically have the same amount of defensive talent but this year looks even worse. Scots post game will be interesting – and what do worthy and Magic have to say about all of this…
Lil pau says
This is really painful. Only d’Antoni looks good in the midst of this horrorshow. Kobe clearly accepted a Faustian deal– an unbearably bad team, but he can shoot as much as he wants. Only way this makes sense is if he has eyes on KAJ’s all time scoring record. after all, he’d race past MJ even as the third option on a contender…
rr says
gene,
To be guaranteed one of the Top 5 picks, the Lakers have to finish with either the worst or 2nd-worst record in the league.
Ko says
Hey Mitch!
Your 2 point guards had no baskets tonight.
And you still have a job Mr Yes Man?
Jerke says
the tv announcers totally remind me at this point of the courtside announcers in Semi Pro – just searching for anything to say. I’m half expecting one of them to start talking about sleeping with the others wife lol.
lakafan says
Scott said he did most of his talking to team at halftime. Obviously they weren’t listening cause they gave up 41 in the 3rd quarter. LOL
Horry calling out Kobe. Saying he needs to share the ball. Spot on!! You dont get the ball on O, you probably dont try your best on D.
Archon says
Scotts post game presser sounded like a coach ready to make changes.
Expect to see a major reduction in minutes for Lin, Wes, Boozer and probably Hill.
gene says
Robert Horry just nailed it…Kobe doesn’t share the ball….players don’t feel involved…. Guys don’t play defense.
rr says
Scott will pretty much have to make changes, either now, or after another loss or three.
rr says
And yes, basically, that will mean more Davis, Sacre, Henry, and Clarkson, plus Young; and less Hill, Boozer, Price, Johnson and possibly Lin.
Fern says
@gene the team sucks so he is going to give the ball to who? This season and the next are going to be the Kobe Show. He tried to pass it, there is no Pau no Shaq,no Big Shot Rob no Fish, not even Glen Rice, might as well shoot it himself.
Fern says
What changes? Change the roster?
Chearn says
The only problem with that theory Horry is none of the players on the team are known for playing defense. It’s like a team full of Nick Young’s (but at least he tried to play D last year). When it comes to Kobe, it appears as though Horry has sour grapes from his playing days with him. He’s had disparaging remarks in regards to Kobe on several different platforms.
That theory would also be relevant if these players had 3-4 year contracts because then they could play defense next year or the one after that. The majority of the players on this team are on one-and-done deals so the odds are that they will not pick up anything more than a one-year-deal next year or have to play in China. There are plenty of guys of this league that earns a paycheck by hitting the offensive glass no one puts the ball in their hands. No one wants to hear excuses, if one’s goal is a contract next year they do whatever it takes to garner attention…period. Like the Drew League’s motto, “No excuse, just produce!”
Mid-Wilshire says
Jeremy Lin: 22 minutes, zero points, one assist.
Stephen Curry: 29 minutes, 30 points, 15 assists.
Would you say that Lin got outplayed?
Meanwhile, Wes Johnson in 31 minutes has 6 points (3-11) and Carlos Boozer in 21 minutes has 6 points (3-13). And both were pathetic on defense.
This is absolutely rock bottom. As a result, I disagree with Robert Horry. Who is Kobe going to pass the ball to?
Jordan Hill at least tries hard (15 pts., 11 boards in 25 minutes) although he is clearly overmatched against the league’s better centers. He simply offers only token resistance and is a real liability in defending the 5 spot.
It’s obviously time to shake things up. I expect wholesale changes to the lineup on Tuesday. Lin simply does not have the confidence or the backbone to play with Kobe. Jordan Farmar did. But he’s gone. Letting Farmar go to the Clippers (even though he’s not playing very well with the Clippers) was a real loss. Lin should be strictly a 2nd team PG. I can see why Houston demoted him. He’s just not a big league Point Guard.
I expect the following lineup on Tuesday: Kobe, Ronnie Price, Jordan Hill, Ed Davis, and either Xavier Henry or Nick Young. It’s anything but a killer lineup. But Byron has no choice. Major changes have to be made.
The time is now.
Kris says
@Fern
Agreed. Let Kobe shoot- it worked great tonight!
Kevin T says
I saw a lot of passes from Kobe that produced open shots for the rest of the guys, but they kept missing. There is no way Kobe keeps passing if the rest of the guys miss shots and thats open shots that are makable, I would rather see Kobe shooting contested shots than Lin/Hill/Wes/Booz missing wide open ones. Shut it Horry, and watch the game instead of looking at highlights or stats. I know Kobe was not passing at all in the 3rd and I am cool with that.
Ko says
3new starters Tuesday
Sasha,Smush and Kwame
T Rogers says
Kobe may as well try passing more. It’s not like the current approach is working. The team is 1-9. Him gunning most nights doesnt increase their chances of winning. By moving the ball more it gets the others more involved. It also helps preserve Kobe’s legs. There are still 70+ games left. He needs to pace himself.
Chearn says
Kobe didn’t shoot the prior game, and the results were the same, so what’s the problem? This team is not aggregated for the NBA it is a ragtag band of one-and-done players. You pay for what you get.
As I stated in a previous thread, two-and-a-half players in the starting five have played more than 30 games as a starter. The remaining players on the team were not even heavy rotation players on their previous teams, all but Nick Young and he’s injured.
All we have is the Kobe show. Nash won’t take the coach’s calls, and our draft pick is injured. The only player we can hope to see more of by January is Clarkson and hopefully Davis.
Oldtimer says
An embarrassing night for Elgin Baylor’s Day, Lakers don’t have a working roster, one ball hog and 8 bystanders who are all bad enough for the 2nd unit during the Laker hey days. You can’t blame Kobe to be the ball hog because it is the only remaining show at Staples, which would you prefer to see a ball hog, brick layers or a T.O. specialist point guard? If Baylor at 80 years old, would dress tonight, I think he can shoot against Boozer or Sacre who are bad recruits of Mitch. A waste of time of Linsanity, I would prefer Farmar and Meeks combo rather than paying Lin’s 8M. I think Mitch is getting old too, time to retire and move on to another job. Jimbo and Jeanie, the VP and lady Pres. both of you need a vacation and hire someone to run the team. Fans would be happier not seeing you spinning at Staples or at TWC for another lame season You just keep on pissing Laker fans with your promises. I apologize in advance for my rant, just have to put it out due to the embarrassing show to the Laker legends.
Kris says
@Kevin T- I agree. Let Kobe keep shooting. It’s working pretty well so far. 1-9 with that approach.
Ko says
It’s cool Old.
When you hand owners 3billion you have thrown away the reason to get better. Dr.Buss at one point could barly make payroll and had to sell the Kings to save things. It meant sometimes ng to him to win and put on a “show time” show.
These Busses make $100 million a year win, lose or embarrass. Time for them to go before the Lakers turn into the Raidiers. Once proud franchise that turned into a joke when the son took over. Shaq and West must be laughing.
Kevin T says
@Kris- They will lose either way, so I will take shot happy Kobe. This team is set up to fail. Just need Kobe to shoot at a better %. I hope Kobe plays all 82 and averages 30 and we get to keep our pick. I just hope Kobe isn’t dumb enough to not know how management set this up.
Kris says
@Kevin T- so you are saying management set this up on purpose?
rr says
For all the focus on KB’s shots, the Lakers are actually 16th in ORTG as per Bask Ref. But they are (duh) 30th in DRTG, and some distance behind the team in 29th. Zach Lowe noted in preseason that if you looked at the Lakers’ personnel and Scott’s track record as a defensive coach, the Lakers had the “potential” to be historically bad on that side of the ball, and that is exactly what is going on. Adding Boozer to Jordan Hill and starting both of them, along with a 36-year-old two-guard with bad habits coming off serious leg injuries; Jeremy Lin, and Wesley Johnson, was asking for this–and the Lakers are getting it.
mud says
look, nobody has a right to complain about being left out of the offense if they don’t hit at least 60% of their OPEN shots. someone who can’t hit an open shot has no business dogging it on defense either, or disregarding the team’s schemes. a player who can’t hit an open shot should be doing anything he can just to stay in the league.
Sald0gg says
Say it with me guys… Emmanuel Mudiay or Jahlil Okafor. Emmanuel Mudiay or Jahlil Okafor…
rr says
The supposed hope that Kobe would be the draw for fans’ interest only goes so far, and these Lakers are nearing the unwatchable state prior to Thanksgiving.
—
Yeah, I mentioned this yesterday, as did a couple of other people. If the team is bad enough, people will lose interest. And, while it is not his fault, Kobe is signed for two years at this money, and the second year, as I said months ago, was my biggest issue with the contract.
On a purely subjective note, a lot of people, including some on this thread, have talked about how Kobe is still worth watching, etc. But for me, having him on a team this bad just makes it more of a drag for many reasons, one being that the Lakers being this bad with Kobe on the team will draw even more attention than a bad Lakers team without him would.
kevin_ says
“When we’re winning it’s us, when we’re losing it’s on me” – Kobe. Wrong mentality at this stage. Lakers will be losing most nights. Sounds like an excuse to keep gunning.
Radius1238 says
System matters. Establishing a system and putting your players in the best position to win the ballgame. Since Phil Jackson left, the Lakers have lost their identity. Mike Brown was supposed to be a defensive minded coach, but he wasn’t very good utilizing 2 seven footers to protect the paint. MDA established his system, but could not put his players in a position to succeed (see Pau).
Segway to Pau: the past 3 years (basically since the last championship really) majority of Lakers fans called him soft and a defensive liability. Now in Chicago with an established defensive mindset and understanding of his skillset, Pau has become the dynamic player he once was AND has become a decent defensive player. Against a really good Raptors team, Pau had 27 pts, 11 rebounds, 2 assists and 3 blocks. Raptors shot 3-12 on shots Pau contested. (source: cbs sports). Pau, a player many on this site (and pundits around the league) thought was done is now looking like an amazing player once again.
So what’s my point (besides my happiness that Pau is doing amazing)? SYSTEMS MATTER. IDENTITY MATTERS. From pre season on, I have yet to see what Byron’s offensive and defensive systems are. The only thing I know: he doesn’t like the 3 point shot. And while I would hate to fire ANOTHER COACH, I would get over it because he really hasn’t given us a system, offensively or defensively.
My thoughts going forward:
Lin looks lost starting next to Kobe. Ronnie Price hasn’t looked great either. So why not give Clarkson the start? Lin comes off the bench and plays more time with Ed Davis. Their pick and roll tandem would really help. Add Nick Young to the 2nd unit to space the floor, and that will be helping. We all know what Lin’s strength is: to have the ball, run pick and roll and penetrate. He cannot do that when Kobe is on the floor.
For the starters(Clarkson/Price, Kobe, Wes, Boozer [and this is only bc We all know Byron for whatever reason isn’t starting Davis over him] and Hill) that team needs to run a slow deliberate system. Triangle. But Byron wont run that. But they need something to know how to move because once they give the ball to Kobe in the pinch post, the ball and the offense stops. And that leads to ugly ass basketball.
The Dane says
What is going on with Nash??? We have one youngster with potential playing, and he is a PG. Nash could really help here as a coach. He would be one of the best paid coached in the league.
I have been a huge Nash fan for years, and always enjoyed how classy and smart he carried himself in a league of thugs and fake thugs. He showed that being tough had nothing to do with tats or beating your chest (or yelling… Boozer… no, yelling does not make you a warrior, nope, sorry…).
But how can he not take the phone when his head coach calls… this is legacy tarnishing.
AusPhil says
Mid-Wilshire : I’m hoping that’s the lineup too. Need Hill away from the 5 more.
And yes, I started reading 2015 draft previews today…
Renato Afonso says
Yep, we could and should have kept Farmar, Meeks and Gasol. They are better than their current counterparts in our roster.
And Jerke, on that “Given that Pau is basically a non-entity on defense” sentence you typed, have you seen the Bulls lately?
If Scott doesn’t change something sooner rather than later he’ll be run out of town, regardless of being a Laker… How long before Jim actually leaves the FO? He said he was giving himself a 3 year deadline, so anyone knows the exact date?
BigCitySid says
-“I think that just says that he’s still Kobe and he can get 44. As long as it doesn’t hurt us too much and the game’s going our way, then we’re going to play him straight up,” coach Steve Kerr said.
-Kobe: “The responsibility is on me. I mean, when things go good, it’s us. When things go bad, it’s me.”
-“Bryant, who sat out the fourth quarter with Los Angeles down by 36 points, was 15-for-34 from the field in 31 minutes”. If TWC’s $$$’s are really tied to ratings, Lakers heading for trouble. Can’t imagine anyone other than 14 year olds & fantasy b-ball players who would find that game entertaining from a Laker viewpoint.
-1-9, worst start in Laker history.
-When the time comes, it will be very appropriate for Kobe to start his HOF acceptance speech by saying: “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times…”
BigCitySid says
“Beleaguered coach Byron Scott has been through these kind of starts before. His 2004-05 New Orleans Hornets lost 29 of their first 31 games and finished 18-64. His 2010-11 Cleveland Cavaliers started out 8-45 and finished 19-63”
Needless to say, add his 2014-15 Laker record top the mix, not good for the resume.
This can be Scott’s last shot as a head coach. Three strikes and you’re….
drrayeye says
Yes, it’s very sad, and our self destruction continues. It serves no purpose to blame Byron, trying to play defense with a roster intended for D’Antoni’s flavor of disaster. Kobe will always be Kobe. Jimmy, Jeanie, and Mitch need to take a hard look at what they’ve done–and think they’re doing. Maybe one or all of them should enroll in an online MBA program? Or at least take a course in leadership and change management.
Hope seems to be drifting further and further away.
Robert T. says
It’s discouraging how the Lakers play, if they will not change their coach Byron Scott the Lakers will be at the bottom of all the team in the NBA history. Basketball is a team game not a one man play as Kobe deals with it. I dont know of what Kobe want to show the world, to score more points even at low percentage of shooting, when asks of his low percentage in shooting, he reply he is a shooting guard so will shoot even below par. I didn’t see Byron Scott in the Lakers team because Kobe who is the one dictating the game, when Kobe says that Lin will step up the offense and Byron Scott will says that Lin will step up the offense when in fact Kobe is dictating the play……..
BigCitySid says
SMH…Highlights from Baxter Holmes piece on ESPN-L.A. (http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles-lakers/post/_/id/40410/lakers-threaten-to-go-from-bad-to-toxic)
-“The Los Angeles Lakers’ defense is on pace to be one of the worst in history. Kobe Bryant is on pace to miss shots at a faster rate than anyone in history. And the team is on track to have its worst season in franchise history.”
-Bryant shot the ball like it was a hot potato, launching it almost the second he caught it, no matter where he was, no matter how contested the shot was.
He shot 13 field goals in the first quarter; the rest of the Lakers shot 15.
He had 24 shots at halftime; the rest of the Lakers shot 32.
-“We look up there, and we see that we’re winning by 30, 40 points, that 44 is really irrelevant,” Warriors backup center Marreese Speights said.
-“Right now, there is no flow with this team,” Horry said. “It’s Kobe this, Kobe that, and you can see the frustration in the other guys. Jeremy Lin stated it. Boozer stated it in the interviews that there’s some lack of trust going on and they want to be more involved in the team effort to win ballgames.”
-“It’s only mid-November, but everything is happening at an historic rate, and not in a good way for these Lakers. And at some point, perhaps soon, that’s all these Lakers may have to play for — not being on the wrong side of history, in the worst section of the record books.”
It’s becoming harder and harder for anyone to justify anything about this team…and it’s only 10 games…72 more to go.
Joe Houston says
So its Kobe’s fault that Jeremy Lin cant dribble the ball up court without getting it stripped? Its Kobe’s fault that Boozer is the worst defender at the PF position in the league? Kobe can shoot 50 times or not shoot at all, it doesnt change the fact that the Lakers are horrible defensively. No team with Lin at PG, Boozer at PF can be good defensively. The Lakers issue isn’t offense, it is defense. Its time to start Ronnie Price and Ed Davis. In fact I rather start Scare and Hill at the 4 and 5. Anything that gets Boozer out of the starting lineup is ok with me.
Robert T. says
You are right it is only 10 games….72 more to go, but time is gold and must have a coach who is in command no matter what … win or loss…
Ko says
rr
Reference to your eyeballs comment.
Funny thing is the smart basketball and Lakers fans are the ones who will stop watching. It like a food expert going to his fav restaurant after new management. After a few bad meals he finally gives up. The junk food guy doesn’t know the difference.
Some of us hard core fans are about to throw up. The others are just happy to get discounted tickets on Stub Hub or given to them free. I for one have noticed less regulars and more look-e-lues at games. It got so ugly last night I turned on The Good Wife instead. That was a first for me.
The Buss family may have poisoned the well for some of us hard core fans. And knowing they will still make a $100 million doesn’t help. By mid-season I might have to eat somewhere else and find a hobby. Is knitting fun?
Trip says
Well, I’m not sure what to make of this fact, the only team worse than the Lakers are the 76ers and they are clearly trying to lose. So what does that say about the skill set of our FO that they are trying to win yet their efforts have produced a team that is only incrementally better than a FO that isn’t trying at all?
Either the FO is straight up lying to the fan base about the team’s ability to compete or they are without a doubt the worst talent evaluators in the league.
agree says
With Swaggy coming back, him and Kobe could easily shoot 60% of the entire teams shots every game.
IF I was Lin and I would just drive to hole every play next game until I got benched. Maybe Ed Davis and Lin could just play PnR for 15 minutes a game. The rest of the time we can just watch Kobe jack up shots and Swaggy. It should be really fun to watch those two play together, maybe we will become the “7 seconds or less” Lakers as Kobe/Young compete for shot attempts. That might be fun to watch for a couple games. If things don’t change soon, I’ll just play video games this winter with my free time. If I wanted to watch one guy dominate the ball a shoot a ton, I would re-watch early Jordan highlights b/c that was far more entertaining watching sick dunks and drives rather than endless 3 point bricks and fade-aways. But heh, Kobe brought his shooting %up to 37.7 so its trending in the right direction right?
Jack says
I spoke, in a previous thread about the fact that the Lakers have no other options available to them but to roll with the team they have. Whether planned or not was not relevant to the reality that we are in. The only logical path is to keep their top 5 pick. My rationale was that the only asset the FO has to improve is cap space. Trying to improve the talent on the floor would be franchise suicide because we would likely acquire overpriced marginal or fading talents that would provide a few incremental wins and eat up our financial flexibility going forward.
For what it is worth I favor the foundation building expressed by many for this off season: healthy Randle, top five pick, sign Monroe and Jackson. That is the only way an elite FA gives the Lakers a second glance in the future.
Back to this year: I felt that the FO could get away with doing nothing because of Kobe. My thinking was that Kobe would provide the cover necessary to divert the attention of the fan base from, ‘how are the Lakers doing?’ to, ‘how is Kobe doing?’
rr, among others have brought up a point that I had not fully considered: What if all Kobe all the time doesn’t work? The FO could find themselves in the vortex of pain: a horrible team on the floor and poor ratings on TV and radio.
My fear, as outlined above, is that pressure from TWC and to a lesser degree ESPN Radio may force the FO’s hand to improve the product on the floor, now. We may be facing a crucial time in the direction of the franchise because I truly believe that if we give up our cap space the Lakers will be a dead franchise for the balance of the decade.
T. Rogers says
Count me as one who doubts Young’s impact will make a difference. Nick looked good last season because he was allowed to shoot and handle the ball with relative freedom. That won’t be the case now. Young likes the ball in hands. Lin does as well. And we see how Lin looks playing without the ball. Now if Nick is coming in the with the second unit he may be able to do something. The problem is the rest of the second unit would be out there with him.
PurpleBlood says
KO,
the food critic metaphor is a good one. i know Rosie Grier needlepoints as a way to relax, good enough?
___
our nightmare drags on, ugh
Vasheed says
Joe is pretty much spot on about Lin. I said this when the Lakers acquired him linsanity ended when teams realized he can’t handle ball pressure and he is only effective driving in 1 direction. He could become a good PG if ever ironed out those flaws but as is he just not a solid player. I used to live in NY and saw the rise and fall of Linsanity.
RR is one of the few posters with his head on straight. For all the fuss about Kobe shooting the real problem is the overall team defense. You can hide 1 or even 2 bad defenders but when you might have 1 or 2 decent defenders (not great) and the rest are sub-par to horrible nothing is going work out. Randle is not a superstar in the making. He is a subpar defender with an interesting offensive skill set. In the right situation backed up by a good defensive center Randle could make sense but its another deficiency to work around which the Lakers do not need. This was one of the main reasons I was against drafting him.
I agree to some extent that draft picks are a great way to acquire talent that you can lock up at a good price. But I don’t see playing out an entire season to keep 1 pick which may or may not work out as a “plan”. I advocated the Lakers should have taken on as many bad 1 year contracts this year with the goal of gathering up draft picks. As they didn’t do this, this year with exception to the Lin deal acquiring Houston’s pick I would think it would be great idea again this year although last years draft class was as I understand much deeper. I think the Lakers will likely do again what they did this year and try and get a star. This franchise has been built on star power. The one thing I believe the Lakers fear most is the retirement of Kobe without anyone to be the face of the franchise going forward.
J C says
As Radius said above, Systems Matter.
Coaching systems, defensive, and offensive systems matter.
And — Attitude matters!
To those posters that think Kobe’s ‘gunning’ approach is just fine,
have you ever actually played on a team?
Have you even played a game of pickup ball?
Playing with a guy who shoots over and over and over is a total, complete drag.
It’s not the way the sport was designed to be played.
It’s a cancer. And yes it spreads to a lack of defensive efforts by those being ignored on the offensive end. (Horry will be getting his gag order from management soon.)
But the biggest reason that having one guy shoot half the shots isn’t effective,
is the flip side of that coin:
Playing the game the right way, by sharing the ball, is contagious.
It sparks everyone on the team, offensively, defensively.
It’s called TEAMWORK and it matters as much, or more than any system.
The great coaches, Phil especially, and his mentor, Red Holzman, taught it.
Even Red Auerbach knew it.
You know who else knew this?
Magic Johnson.
And now in the modern era, the reason the Spurs are still in the championship hunt every year,
is because Coach Pop and Timmy and Manu and Parker GET IT.
They know that teamwork makes even a less talented player more valuable.
And that teamwork and unselfishness allows young players to flourish and blossom like Kawhi Leonard has.
Instead of asking who does Kobe have to pass to, the question should be: how can we put everyone in the best position to grow and develop? How can I make my teammates better, more confident, more empowered?
Developing trust and chemistry takes time. It doesn’t happen overnight.
Teamwork isn’t just a basketball thing.
It’s a life thing.
Calvin Chang says
I like Lin’s character, but he will be back in the D League after this season unless he fixes one huge flaw in his ball-handling technique. He dribbles high, doesn’t bend down when he’s being attacked by the defender. Major fundamental flaw.
If you’re handling the ball, you’ve got to bend and dribble low / protect the ball with your body when the defender is trying to poke it away. Even use your off-hand as a stiff-arm to protect from pokes.
That’s why guys with long arms (Kawhi, Iggy) or quick feet have a good chance of poking the ball away from Lin in a one-on-one situation. Lin’s body is just straight up even when someone’s pressing him. Big no-no.
Calvin Chang says
Biggest problem is defense. No rim protection. No size. That’s why I keep on bringing up Thabeet – take a chance on him. If there’s one thing he knows how to do, it’s blocking shots. Lakers have absolutely nothing to lose by signing Thabeet to a non-guaranteed minimum peanuts contract. Let him play center for 10 games and tell him he has to average 3 blocks a game. Move Hill to PF, bench Boozer. Have a 3-man rotation of Thabeet, Ed Davis, and Hill in the front line for better rim protection.
If Thabeet sucks, waive him. We know the record in the next 10 games will be 2-8 anyway. Why not try something different.
Joel says
Lakers in a nutshell
Coach has a coaching philosophy out of the 90’s.
Our hustle center doesn’t hustle anymore. He prefers pick and pop and shoot 21 foot jumpers. He doesn’t hustle on the defensive end and continues to get beat down the court by opposing bigs
our power forward may be the worst defensive player in the league
our 3 and D small forward just isn’t that good at either 3’s or playing D
our star is still a star but doesn’t have the ability to continually get players good shots
our point guards strength is to attack the basket but he’s not aggressive and he doesn’t know how to maintain his dribble.
Our starters are back ups at best on almost every other team and our bench are the LA Defenders with the exception of Davis.
Stuart says
Can anyone speak to the Lakers attendance and ratings this year? I am sure that the FO knew the team they put together was not a contender. Like Jack, above, I am also sure that the FO felt that Kobe would be the ‘opiate of the masses’ and provide the required cover for the non-competitive product on the floor. It will be interesting to see if the FOs plan is backfiring or trending in a negative direction.
Calvin Chang says
Huge fundamental flaw in Byron Scott’s philosophy on offense. In today’s game, the 3pt shot (corner 3’s) is critical in spreading out the defense and creating space. Every serious playoff team either has to have great 3pt shooting, or elite low-post offense. Cavs, Spurs, Warriors, Clippers, Rockets, Mavs, Grizzlies = they all have this. It’s not because “3pt shooting is cool, looks great”. It’s because of the spacing it creates. Without 3pt shooting, defense just packs the paint. Then Lakers are stuck shooting long 2’s all game, as Darius has brought up many times before.
T. Rogers says
Joel,
I think Hill’s lack of hustle is related to his upgrade to the starting lineup. When he’s coming in for spot minutes off the bench its easy to play with an ultra high motor. Now that he has to play the majority of minutes every night and reality is setting in. That is where his lack of polish shows. He can’t score patented moves. And he doesn’t have a guy like Gasol next to him to get the majority of the front court attention. It’s all him down there now. And other teams key in on him.
Anonymous says
Hill is a luxury player that the Lakers can’t afford. Hill would be an awesome first big off the bench for a contending team. The Lakers are far from that. He has always eaten up 2nd string competition. A great majority of Hill’s numbers, for the Lakers, have been when he has come off the bench or as a starter teamed with another talented front court player (Pau).
His current role, as a starting center, is not a good fit for him or the Lakers.
Jerke says
Re: my comments about Pau – Radius said it all. System matters – never questioned Pau’s offensive ability (and despite his complaining about use in mda’s system he still got his career average numbers) he’s still a decent player on that end – but don’t tell me that he magically turned into a wonderful defensive player when he joined established defensive system where he was brought in mainly to be a catalyst on offense. When you have Noah, Taj gibson, Butler, and quick point guards in front of you to rotate for help and prevent penetration then of course it hides a lot of defensive flaws. Thats why Nash looked average and a decent team defender w Raja Bell and Shawn Marion and Diaw and Joe johnson on his wings to help him. That’s what Dwight Howard was supposed to do for Nash and Kobe at their ages.
As others have mentioned above – Scott supposedly had this rep as a defensive coach but without the actual stats to prove it and has shown zero improvement so far or even a discernable system on the flr as far as I can see – defensively or offensively. And yes personnel plays a huge part but every team can at least do something – either pack the paint or run everyone off the 3 pt line and take away something at the very least.
Re: the Scott “Nash won’t return calls” comments – for what its worth – when that initial article came out there was one or two articles that appeared up here north of the border via sources close to Nash that Scott’s comments were 100% about throwing shade and trying to pull people under the bus to distract from the job that he’s doing. And given that Nash’s expiring contract is becoming even more likely to be shopped and moved to another team anyways, his management team feels there is no reason for him to in there coaching shooting and doing Scotts job for him.
Calvin Chang says
If Byron’s plan on offense is to have Kobe carry the team, then he should go all in and adopt the Sixers 2001 team model. That Sixers team made it to the finals (and lost to Kobe and Shaq) with Iverson’s offense, and ugly, smashmouth physical defense. What Scott/ LA should do is sign Thabeet for minimum and tell him he should average 2.5 blocks a game or he’s out. Have him play Mutombo’s role. Have Hill/Davis play PF, Lin and Price can be Eric Snow. Tell the whole team to play physical defense. Hard fouls. Forget about offense, just play crazy physical defense. Then on offense, give Kobe green light to do whatever he wants. Set a hundred picks for him. Make opponents dread playing your team.
Oldtimer says
I think there is a psychological explanation why Kobe is trying to shoot a lot? Mind you, I am a Kobe fan since he got to the Lakers but there are limits to adulation on situation that are very disturbing and unreasonable. He may be motivated to chase records based on longevity at the point where it affects the team’s efficiency and his image too. Admittedly, the roster is bad, I don’t think the inclusion of Young could really help that much because he is also a one dimensional player which is purely offense. I wish Kobe will be remembered as a Laker legend who passed the torch to younger Lakers even though they don’t belong to his level. He can feed Clarkson and Davis or even Lin at this time, the score and effort will be the same. Instead of Kobe making the shots, he should sacrifice himself as a decoy to develop hopeful Lakers in the future. If he insists on the KobeShow, it is turning negative even to his die-hard fans and his legacy. News report alone this morning yields a bad reporting on the Lakers and Kobe. They lost the game after two quarters while Kobe got his 44 points after 34 shots. Well, he just re-wrote the bad meaning of perseverance for his self aggrandizement.
Kobe and Nash are both future hall of famers, Here is what James Naismith, inventor of Basketball advice to basketball players especially to the cream of crop in Basketball – “Be strong in body, clean in mind, lofty in ideals.” Is it “lofty in ideals” for Kobe to monopolize all the shooting in a game? For Mr. Nash, is it “clean in mind” that he gets paid for doing nothing, yet even with back injury he could contribute something by helping his coach in training PG’s? In totality, are they not bothered be their consciences on they how their career ends and how they wish to be remembered?
bryan S. says
Lots of good observations here. For those that favor keeping our pick, reconcile yourselves to losing like you’ve never seen. If you can stomach that, is there any way to mitigate the misery?
As others have commented, Randle playing and developing would have eased the suffering. Giving Jordan Clarkson lots of minutes at the point guard spot would help the entertainment factor, but more to the point, would jump start his development. Clearly he has the quickness, speed, length, scoring skill and motor to be a two-way NBA point guard. What he needs is game minutes. Why are we messing around with Ronnie Price? Play these guys as much as possible: Clarkson, Lin, Davis, Swaggy, R. Kelly (too bad he is hamstrung–in a few minutes he showed his all around game that will improve the team IQ). Scott has to insist on unselfish team play and reign Kobe in. Watching anyone jack bad shots is terrible to watch, and kills team ball. Let’s lose the right way!
Stuart says
I thought there was some interest in bringing Quincy Miller on board. Is this something the FO is working on? Or, is there an issue with him that makes it best to pass on him?
No expectations on Miller coming on board and being a star or anything. However, he could develop into rotation player like what we see in Ed Davis.
Calvin Chang says
@Oldtimer = I honestly don’t think Kobe is jacking up 30+ shots because he’s chasing a record. Kobe is doing it because he truly believes that’s the only way they can stay in the game. Here’s how it unfolds: Game starts. Opponents get easy looks on layups because Lakers can’t defend the pick and roll. Boozer, Wes and Hill miss some long 2’s. (in and out) Lin gets picked off because he dribbles too high. Opponents continue scoring. Lead balloons to 10+ points in 6 minutes. Kobe thinks “I have to take over, can’t just watch crime happen”, goes rogue on offense. Teammates watch, get frustrated, play poor defense. Blowout.
agree says
I would like to see what they really have in Ed Davis. Is Davis a real good role player who plays best with around 20mins? Or can he actually reproduce similar to his 36 per avg’s? I say find out what his ceiling is. If he can play 32mins a game at a high level, block lots of shots, shoot a high % and play decent D then keep him out there. We don’t need two “bigs” in Boozer/Hill that play bad to blah defense and they both seem to desire to shoot jumpers/set shots over banging underneath.
If they aren’t set on trying to get Lin or any of these other guys to stay, they should try and trade them by the deadline and snag some picks as well. I have no patience for a Philly style tank, and I don’t find Kobe’s ball hogging shoot 40% of the teams shots per game entertaining. Some do I suppose, but I like team basketball with some flow and passing. Watching Kobe try and lead the league in scoring while shooting in the 37-38% range I think just makes him look bad to end his career. Clearly, he is losing his teammates as well. Byron Scott can help the matter by playing Kobe 30mins tops, and quit the insanity of overplaying him during blowouts so he can stuff his stats.
Calvin Chang says
@Stuart = From what I’ve seen of Quincy Miller, he seems to be like a Perry Jones / Earl Clark type of player. Good fundamentals, tall, can shoot, raw. Question is: If Lakers sign him, how does he fit Byron Scott’s system? Quincy Miller is a good player to have. One big problem is – I don’t know if he’ll be effective in Byron Scott’s offense of long twos.
Calvin Chang says
@Agree = Totally agree with you with Ed Davis. It will be good if Ed Davis starts and plays 30+ minutes, while Boozer plays 15 to 18 mins tops. It will be good to see what Ed Davis can do long term. Heart of the problem is Byron Scott’s poor offensive scheme and bad spacing. With Byron Scott’s offense, a lot of players can be made to look very bad. Ex: Jeremy Lin is useless in Byron Scott’s offense. Lin thrives on pushing the pace, pick and roll / spread out defense so he can drive and kick. But with Scott’s offense, it’s slow, there’s no space to drive. He tries to go to the corner as the corner off-ball 3pt shooter to spread the defense, but he hardly gets the ball. So he’s useless in Scott’s offense.
Archon says
I agree with Calvin. If Kobe is taking a third of the teams shots there is no point playing with offense oriented players. The 2001 Sixers model is exactly the way to go, maximize on guys who can rebound and defend. Start Davis at center, bring in another shot blocker as a backup 5, bench Boozer and Lin, start Hill at the 4 and Price at point guard. Tell Wes Johnson there is a starting small forward opening somewhere in Europe and bring in Roscoe Smith or another rugged defender/rebounder at the 3.
Robert says
Calvin Chang: I actually like your 2001 Sixers idea. We would still lose, but it would be better.
brian S: “is there any way to mitigate the misery?” That is what Kobe is for. If that treatment is not working for some – then it is pure pain this year and probably next.
Stuart: “It will be interesting to see if the FO’s plan is backfiring or trending in a negative direction.” That sentence made me laugh. Do we really need to wait and see? Just look where we are. Every plan we have had the last 3 years has backfired.
drrayeeye: “Maybe one or all of them should enroll in an online MBA program?” Well in Jim’s case, he would first need to get his 4 year degree. He dropped out of USC to go to jockey school (literally).
Oldtimer: “both of you need a vacation and hire someone to run the team.” Unfortunately, we might have 3 years to wait for this.
Byron Scott: He is leading a battle charge that can’t be won. This is roster. Yes – he can do some stuff better (clearly), but we will still be a very bad team.
Team: Seriously – what were you all expecting? A borderline playoff team or a 50 win team? We can never be that this year. A perfect Kobe and a perfect Byron does not yield that. In fact we do have a perfect Kobe. He is healthy and leading the league in scoring ! Oh yea – he is a ball hog. So it is 2006 again? Was anyone expecting more out of Kobe? He could have been a fraction of this coming off a double injury. We have a healthy vibrant Kobe and we are horrible, because we have no big men and a horrible roster. Changing schemes and rotations is going to be like re-arranging the deck chairs and having the band playing, all while ignoring the hole in the hull from when we hit an iceberg.
agree says
This team just seems like all the stars are aligning for EPIC FAILURE. Regardless of the roster set-up, the players basically can’t play. Kelly has “broken” hamstrings which who would have thought might allow Young to play more minutes in his first game than Kelly has this season. The Nash stuff has been hashed out, but still its a loss and unless something happens with his contract its an utter loss with no upside.
Randle breaking his leg in his first 11 minutes, just crazy. The Laker’s “Winning” a waiver that they never should have attempted for to begin with for Boozer. Who would have looked at our roster and not thought the defense was going to be suspect.
How about someone make some 3’s, somebody bloody dunk on somebody and do some fast breaks once in awhile (guess its hard to fast break if you never stop anyone from scoring–well except the spurs). I’m really pumped for some Video games this winter (less Lakers, means more available free time). I can’t begin to get myself to watch some of these games after the fact–so no point in DVR/N-live reruns I’m not a masochist.
the other Stephen says
We’ve discussed various aspects of this many times, but here’s a recent tweet from Brian Kamenetzky anyway: “one underrated point of comparison between the Lakers and Dodgers [is] investment in intellectual capital. Dodgers going big, Lakers… no.” :C
BigCitySid says
You can fool all of the Laker fans some of the time, you can fool some of the Laker fans all of the time…but you can’t fool all of the Laker fans all of the time.
Oldtimer says
Calvin C. – do you think Byron and coaching staff planned the Kobe shooting monopoly in that manner? All of them are executing bad defense, Kobe too, is now slow in reacting against young guns of GS, that’s understandable because of the age gap. I think coaching staff have a plan, unfortunately the athletic skills of the roster do not fit with the requirements of the job or put it in another angle, not comparable to competition’s’ skill set. We observed these situations when Lakers have better players in the 80’s or last decade, Lakers dominate ball games after 3 quarters. My angst, Lin is not cheap even for only one year contract; Hill is paid well tho’ he can play only as supplemental player and Boozer was a product of the highest bidder deal. Wesley Johnson should not be a starter at all. I believed many posters here have predicted this outcome during the preseason. We refused to believe because we are the die hard fans. Today, we observed Lakers FO is aiming at the stars when they can’t even make a smooth take off. Do we have credibility in NBA and to the marquee players they wish to sign? Remedies will take some time before the sick team is cured. Last year was considered worse under Dantoni but as a start, it was better than this year’s first 10 games. I want Byron to try another strategy to go “postal” and bench all the starters, it’d wake up a bunch of Rip Van Winckle’s in the roster, never know that strategy might work than being too cool as a Coach.
bryan S. says
“one underrated point of comparison between the Lakers and Dodgers is investment in intellectual capital. Dodgers going big, Lakers …no”
Sounds smart and insightful–but it isn’t at all. To whit, what are the bottom feeder teams that have hired “smart guys” (e.g.the Sixers) doing? Losing as much as possible to get high picks and preserving cap room. That’s your Lakers! Only the Lakers are doing it one better: maintaining fan interest (and hopefully ratings) through the bread and circus Kobe show. Jerry Buss would be proud of of his progeny who are shrewdly doing what they have to in order to get back to the top in the new CBA environment.
PurpleBlood says
I agree with both Oldtimer & Calvin when it comes to Mamba.
Personally, I´d love to see (as i´ve stated before, him working down low and being the facillitator – man, i just dug watching him play like that. However, Calvin´s post at 12:13 is arguably spot on as well –
For Mamba at this point it´s paradoxical at best –
__-
Lakers: i´m all in with ya, always will be; but brother, it´s been a huge drag for these past three plus years…
bryan S. says
“Randle is not a superstar in the making. He is a subpar defender with an interesting offensive skill set. In the right situation backed up by a good defensive center Randle could make sense but its another deficiency to work around which the Lakers do not need. This was one of the main reasons I was against drafting him.”
While it is true that Randle does not have elite length to be a shot blocking four, he does possess elite lateral quickness, explosiveness and strength. All of these attributes taken together, project an above average team defender as he learns the pro game. Your labeling him sub par defensively is at best a premature judgement. As to your point about needing a defensive center behind him, and thus further burdening the team to compensate for his deficiencies, it’s an argument that doesn’t hold water. With the exception of the Lebron Heat, what elite team doesn’t have that player? How good would Blake Griffin look without DeAndre Jordan? You can bet a defensive big will be at the top of the Lakers draft wish list, irrespective of Randle being on the roster.
How good will Randle be? No one knows for sure,
but there is enough evidence to suggest that he has a high ceiling and will prove to be a great pick at that spot.
Calvin Chang says
@Oldtimer = I don’t think Byron and his staff planned it this way = poor defense on purpose to force Kobe to take matters to his own hands. Honestly, I truly believe Byron Scott is simply a stubborn coach who likes veterans and old-school style of play. Truth is, the game has evolved. Players are bigger, faster, cover more space, play smarter. That’s why spacing-corner 3’s- is more important now than ever. But Byron’s style is stuck in the 80’s and 90’s. And the front office lacks a good basketball mind. Current team has no identity. They look lost on offense and defense, so Kobe tries to take over.
Calvin Chang says
@Oldtimer = Kareem nailed it when he said the team doesn’t have an identity yet. Are they a defense-oriented team? A pick and roll team? Post-up team? Fast-break team? Successful teams have an identity / style of play. Good coaches evaluate the skillset of their players and try to apply a style that will maximize their talent. (get them to over-achieve) Frank Vogel / Tibs /even Mark Jackson -they know how to inspire players to over-achieve. So far, Byron just has the team playing without an identity or purpose. So they play bad, fall behind by 10++, forcing Kobe to go rogue and take over.
Oldtimer says
Precisely, Calvin C we are saying the same thing. The coach should define his style based on what works today in NBA. How many from the Laker roster today that could execute 40% in the perimeter area? None. GS has a lot plus supplemental perimeter players like Barnes, Green, Igoudala who used to be operators in the shaded lane. How many from the Laker starters who are defense oriented? Maybe, Kobe but sometimes tentative too. The other four are from bad to worst not because they are not trying, the C lacked height to stop his fellow Centers, the other three are very inconsistent. After 10 games, we have seen bad chemistry from a hodgepodge of players who were assembled to excel with the Lakers. Only Kobe is a remnant of b2b championship. Now here comes Byron joining the team in August, no input on the composition of his team. He knows Kobe and Nash but they are both coming from career injuries.
An old school Coach as you said, can he really turn around this group of players in two months’ time? Some are lazy, some lacked talents, some are rookies, some are injured and some are too old to compete with young cheetahs. Well, Kobe, Davis and Clarkson are my exception to the above but because of poor chemistry and communication plus lack of athletic skill for the position, they too are dragged down to incompetence. IMO from my other posts, Kobe should help Scott from these limitations than aggravate it by dominating the ball possessions. It is a catch-22 scenario of training on the job while the opponents are digitized marksmen with smooth flow. Well Steve Kerr came from old school too. Calvin, I will defend the old school since I belong to that generation. Just insert here the old school Coop’ (the young Coop in the 80’s) it will spread out the offense. Add another old, old school, Elgin Baylor of 1965 plus Kobe, this team will have quantum leap from L’s to W’s.. Of course, those are dream scenarios because I’m talking of legends who belonged to old schools. My point, whether old school or today’s NBA player, the talent of the individual player did not change. By my observation from the thousand of games I have seen since the 60’s, there are so many trickery in basketball however the fundamental requirements are: Height for the center, speed, jumping ability and shooting accuracy. If you lack those talents, just one bad player in your line up could really put down the team. IMO, the four starters are atrocious and the great one shoots too much lately.
chris henderson says
tidbit –
29. Los Angeles Lakers (Record: 1-9; last week’s rank: 27): Klay Thompson would’ve entered the draft a year earlier if the Lakers had agreed to take him in the first round, a source said. The Lakers declined.
Reggie Hammond says
Hey Chang are you Thabeets agent? Comparing him to mutumbo all the time should get you fired
The Dane says
I do not believe the teams is missing a style. They are missing talent and at times effort. I think this idea of a style/identity is overrated. It is not that the coaches haven’t defined how they want to play, it is just that the team isn’t good at it at all.
Vasheed says
@Bryan S.
I have posted to Randle’s defensive deficiencies on this forum enough to write a book. His length is beyond sub-elite it is sub average. It translates into poor defensive performance for which there is no correction. But on top of this he is a low IQ defensive player who is typically out of position. Which is correctable but often never happens. He is a gifted offensive rookie but I personally dislike having players like this who are difficult to incorporate into a cohesive team. Randle’s upside is a 4th-6th best player on a team as will never be a complete player. He is not going to develop into a star that the Lakers can rebuild around.
edit: I did wish to note yes Randle does have good speed as well as strength with which to stay in front of his assignment. However, it doesn’t stop longer players from simply shooting over him. This has lead me and many other posters to suggest he switch to SF, but the low IQ problem I believe might not allow this to work well.
Calvin Chang says
@Reggie Hammond= No, but Thabeet’s the only 7ft+ rim protector available that I know of that is cheap and not injured. I would give Greg Oden, Andrew Bynum or Emeka Okafor a look, but I know they’re injured. All I know is that I’m sick of watching the opponents put on a layup drill and blowout win night after night because there’s no shot-blocker. Lakers need a tall shot-blocker. What does the team have to lose by signing a shot-blocker for a non-guaranteed peanuts contract? The team already sucks anyway, right?
Calvin Chang says
I can’t stand teams that know they’re bad and simply accept it and go through the motions, because they become irrelevant. If I were the Raiders or Jaguars GM, I would immediately sign Tim Tebow for minimum and give him a shot. I mean= my team is already a laughing stock anyway. If my team is projected to go 2-14, I’m a proponent of doing it with as much noise as I can on the cheap.
Calvin Chang says
@The Dane: Successful teams have a formula that they use to get high-percentage shots. Lakers had the triangle with Phil Jackson. Spurs rely on constant motion, spacing, and moving the ball to find a great shot. Portland has the high pick-and-roll with Dame Lillard and Aldridge. Etc. I’m not a believer in “my players lack talent, so I accept my team will suck and play bad basketball”. A good coach will figure out a way to squeeze the most out of their players, establish a style of play to steal wins. Frank Vogel took over an aimless Pacers team mid-season in 2011 and took them to the playoffs by establishing a physical style.
bryan S. says
Vasheed: Randle’s length is *not* sub-average. Someone already went through this by doing comps for the position. I guess you missed it. Your claim that Randle is a low IQ defensive player has to be based on a tiny sample size of his nascent pro career–it couldn’t be otherwise. What I saw in the limited time available to assess Randle as an NBA player, was an intelligent, diligent, rookie who simply hadn’t had to play defense before, and was making quick strides game to game. We can argue about our respective perceptions, but time will prove who is off here.
Vasheed says
@byran s.
There is some slight arguement about Randle’s length. I have quoted sources that have him at the smallest height wingspan combo among all pfs. Darius has pointed to stats putting him in the same category as Griffin and David Lee. Problem with that comparison is they are all well below the median length for the pf position (7′). Griffin is a rarity and most guys in this subcategory are offense only players. Randle is not an idiot. But he has a poor defensive iq as demonstrated in the film from his college games. Metta was a knucklehead but had a high basketball iq.