After two consecutive seasons of being one of the worst teams in the NBA, those who cheer for the Lakers are ready for a change. An escape from wondering about lottery odds would be nice. Meaningful games in April and May would be nice. Anything but the awfulness of the last two campaigns would be nice. Forget a return to prominence, a return to competitiveness is what drives fans to seek out optimal solutions to the team’s many problems.
I am of the opinion the Lakers made real strides towards becoming just that again with their drafting of D’Angelo Russell with the #2 overall selection on Thursday. I think Russell is worth the #2 pick, believe his skill set is is diverse enough to be a highly successful player, and see his physical tools as being enough of a foundation to be at least a neutral defender (and potentially better) as he matures and learns the league. Add it all up and he’s a guy I’m very happy with.
The players the Lakers took with their other picks — Larry Nance Jr. at #27 and Anthony Brown at #34 — are not nearly as highly touted, but have useful skill-sets and physical attributes to be successful pros. Whether they can channel those traits and use them to turn potential into actual production remains to be seen. There is a reason many refer to the draft as a “crapshoot” – there are just too many unknowns to speak on most all prospects with absolute certainty and, for many, with only some certainty at all.
But positive steps forward have been made. This is worth feeling good about. It is also natural, I think, to want to see the team advance even further in their improvement this off-season. The Lakers, as a brand, could use not only a bounce back to being respectable, but to a team competing for the playoffs and, ultimately, even more. Jim Buss does have a timeline he’s being held to, after all.
I would caution about thinking too far ahead, however. The Lakers were one of the worst teams in the league last season. A large portion of that was related to injuries, but even if the roster constructed last season was completely healthy, they likely max out at a win total in the low forties. This would not have been good enough for a playoff berth in the brutal west. To think the team they field next year will jump from one of the league’s worst to one challenging for the 45 to 50 wins it likely takes to make the playoffs is a stretch.
Of course I want the Lakers to pursue high level free agents this summer. Marc Gasol, LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, and DeAndre Jordan are impact players who could all help the Lakers a great deal. Gasol and Jordan especially since they have the type of size and defensive presence (though one could make stats based arguments against Jordan’s real value here) which is sorely needed by the Lakers at the center position. A dynamic wing player who could plays both ends of the floor very well is also a major need. While he is a restricted free agent and almost surely unattainable, Jimmy Butler is a player who fits this mold perfectly. If the team could land any one of these guys, it would be another big step forward.
Just don’t count on that happening. And, if it doesn’t, it should not be seen as a major failure. A much better team is the goal, but getting there in one off-season isn’t realistic. The team has too many holes and is lacking too much in the form of proven talent — not to mention experienced talent — to really make a huge leap this summer. I can understand the excitement of drafting a top talent and the prospect of having a boatload of cap space can make the eyes get big, but this will take time.
No one is saying to be happy with another season of missing the playoffs. Making strides towards the ultimate goal, however, is still progress. And while it may not be a full on fix, it will likely need to be enough.
Anonymous says
Sign Monroe. He can play the Four or Five. If Randle can handle the Three then Monroe can slot in as either Center or Forward – the Lakers can opportunistically sign the best FA to fit in next to he and Randle next summer. If Randle needs to play the Four then Monroe plays the Five and we sign the best Three next summer.
Monroe is 24 — young enough to be a building block.
Anonymous says
If we were to land DAJ or Gasol, along with a healthy Kobe for 25 min/night, I think competing for a low playoff berth would be something reasonable to strive for.
As is, no…the team is green, very very young — a lot of mistakes will be made, and needs a lot of time to gel. I wouldn’t expect any semblance of beautiful basketball until at least midway – 3/4 way through the season.
So many things to look forward to:
1-Clarkson’s continual development
2- …and ability to mesh with Russell (I really look forward to seeing this dynamic)
3-Randle’s rookie year
4-the last of any Kobe highlights
5-any impact free agent signings
6-any lopsided trades in our favor
Give us a certain max player next year and then we’re talking
Alas, I’m being Captain Obvious with this post.
I’ll be able to check out one Summer League game though!
Thomas Rickard says
A “put together” team regardless of the experience of the players isn’t likely to have immediate success, it takes time to build chemistry, “team experience”, but first you need a foundation, something I see coming with the Lakers, that’s something to get excited about
Dana says
I kind of disagree. We were sold on the whole tanking (oh please, you know they did), refusing to buy mid-level talent and instead creating as much cap space as possible was the notion that the Lakers could make a huge splash this summer and launch themselves back into almost immediate contention. We would get a great draft pick, we would have the space to sign real stars and top level talent, and we would be “competitive” (defined by Jim Buss as contending for the Western Conference championship or the Finals) by this upcoming season, or the next one at the very latest. That’s the whole philosophy. That’s what we were sold. Can’t change history now.
Oh, I suppose you can admit that it was all a sham, and that it’s not really possible so we have no choice but to lower our expectations, but you can’t run away from the fact that we were sold on the “one-year cheap deals and two years of failure” as THE path to a roaring resurgence (not merely respectable improvement and maybe not the playoffs) in the 2015-16 season.
Robert says
Ano: “The last of any Kobe highlights”: Mitch has back peddled big time from his “last year” comments. Years 21 + 22 on the way!
Dana: That post was beautiful. I read it twice just to make sure that caught every bit of dripping sarcasm. Well done.
Anonymous says
” was the notion that the Lakers could make a huge splash this summer and launch themselves back into almost immediate contention. ”
A lot of things would have to happen in order for contending to happen.. and summer’s not over yet. In fact, it just started.
I’m not sure how anyone can actually think we’d be competing for the WCF and back at the Finals based on the reality. I can’t see where I was “sold” anything.
rr says
Dana-
I think the timeline is more 2017-18, with the big FA splashes supposedly coming after Kobe’s deal is off the books. But, yes, the FO has sold the idea that “financial flexibility” is a big deal. Kupchak has used that term and Buss has talked about signing two max FAs.
As to the post, yes, the Lakers’ roster is too weak, and Kobe’s deal too large (Young’s deal takes a bite as well) to fix everything in one off-season. The Lakers need to add a guy or two who is young enough to grow with Russell/Randle/Clarkson and they need those three to be as good as people are hoping.
.
Ed says
Let`s wait for the Summer League and FA signings and trades before making evaluations. To seriously compete you need a roster with quality depth and versatility,and since we start from a low level, big jumps and a little luck is needed along the way. Having the #2 pick was luck,but it was just the beginning. A top FA signing would be one big jump,and maybe set the tone for the season. With so many young players,player development will have to be at a very high level for a successful year.
George says
Anon- agree on Monroe. We need a post and Gasoline and LA are both 30. They’ll be 32/33 before we contend — they’ll be on the downside by then.
I’m OK if we go slower as long as the FO makes sound decisions. Don’t sign players that are older and have a lot of mileage.
George says
Meant Gasol — silly iPhone spell check.
Robert says
rr/Dana: Unless we get very lucky, there is no way Jim makes his timeline (especially if we approach the re-build correctly). I can hardly wait for the apologists to justify additional years for Jim. Not sure why they will feel the need to do so, Jim will do it himself.
Draft: I wanted Okafor and got Russell. Then we drafted the answer to 2 trivia questions wiith our next pick. Anything happen and I will be hoping for the best, but I am not going to say I am happy at this point, and unless you wanted Russell, it is hard for me to see why others are happy except for simple hope and faith. I should have gone to the draft, and then they could have shown me going ballistic when the Nance pick was made.
chris henderson says
I’ve been a Laker fan since the mid 80’s and the Magic era, and I can’t think of us having an elite PG since then. We’ve made due with the likes of Fish, and essentially won multiple titles without a superstar PG. All this time, I’ve been wondering what it would be like to have a top 3 PG on our team… looks like we’ll finally get to see this, even if it means it’s an evolving process. Something to build around. A PG centric team… finally, we can get back to being Laker fans again!
Patrick Lanigan says
Depending on who they add in free agency, the two most interesting parts of this season for me will be to see how Clarkson and Russell play together (two ball-dominant big PG/small SG guys in the same back court?) and what kind of game does Randle have. We’ve seen virtually nothing of Randle as a basketball player since he was an 18 year old college freshman. Guys at that age can mature (mentally and physically) pretty rapidly, so does he look different than the guy we saw in last year’s NCAA tournament and summer league?
Calvin says
@Robert – I also wanted Okafor. But let’s see how D’Angelo pans out. My worry is that Russell is more of a pick and roll guard, which does not fit Byron’s offense. Okafor would have been great for Byron’s deliberate style. Or the Triangle.
Aaron says
Everyone listen to rr. This team unless they trade for Cousins (we aren’t stupid enough to sign old players like Aldridge) is in play for another top three pick. We are in a great spot. We’ve got good maybe great young players on cheap contracts and will be able to attract the best young free agents in the world. We are in great shape for a five to seven year run as long as we don’t mess it up by getting above average players or guys older than 26 ish. And I don’t think we will mess it up.
Btw… I’m still confident we are in play for Cousins.
tankyou says
I’m just crossing my fingers for Jimmy Butler, I would think the Lakers would actually have a decent chance if he bolts the Bulls. Lots of murmering, new coach, Derek Rose still owns the team–although Jimmy Butler is the better player. I would take Butler over pretty much any of the free agents out there. He’s still young, he played some amazing defense against Lebron this playoff run, he can score big time now and he plays tough blue collar style. People keep mentioning Monroe, but honestly I wouldn’t want him at max. He’s not dominant enough in the post and he just doesn’t defend well enough, and he slows the game down too much. Its more than obvious that you want to attack defenses that are in transition/running and not set yet. This more than anything is why Dwight Howard and the other shot clock eaters just aren’t that good for us. Give me Hakeem and his quick moves and shot anyday, but I don’t see any out there right now. Until big guys that view themselves as dominant like Howard quit playing with the ball they just aren’t going to be key anymore. I’m crossing my fingers we get lucky with Butler, I just think the Bulls are going to mess it up with him, they seem to be fairly good at that.
Calvin says
Aaron – If you’re suggesting another tank if Cousins doesn’t join, I don’t believe that’s realistic. It would take a whole lot of terrible play to lose over 64 games, which is what it will take to get to the bottom 3. The fans will not accept that, and I’m sure the FO is feeling the pressure.
CATS8884 says
The Russell pick just baffles me.
Literally this is how the 2014 high school basketball recruiting scene plays out and yes paying attention to high school recruiting matters.
Emmanuel Mudiay is the consensus top PG prospect in his 2014 class for YEARS, by the recruiting services I trust the most he considered the consensus top 1 or 2 college basketball prospects in the country (Okafor being number 1). Comparisons to John Wall and he is close to committing to Kentucky, which would have made him a sure fire top 3 pick in the draft. Instead he signs with SMU and Larry Brown, but before he can enroll he has eligibility issues and decides to forego his college career and play in China (which supposedly was his only option as he ruined his eligibility with handlers). Arguably the best high school player is hidden from the country with such a recency bias problem it’s ridiculous.
On the other hand is D’Angelo Russell, whom everyone likes and values (ranking is anywhere from 13-21). His knocks have always been the same, poor defender, limited athleticism, weak off hand. John Calipari has the option to watch him basically his entire career since he is a kentucky native (although he did transfer to a prep school out of state), he passes on him in favor of Devin Booker. People can brush this off but go look at recruits Calipari passes on and tell me how his track record is evaluating talent. Russell goes to Ohio State, plays on a terrible team and puts up average statistics while playing in a weak conference. Against top competition he struggles and plays awful. The Arizona game really embodied it for me. If anyone hasn’t seen it you should watch it, he had no way to score on guys quicker and bigger than him, which he will continually encounter in the NBA. That’s not to say he can’t hone his skills, but usually limited athleticism doesn’t translate well to the NBA. Steph Curry is the exception to the rule, heck Kobe wasn’t the most spectacular athlete either but few will ever touch his work ethic.
I can get behind the idea of drafting a PG in a more guard oriented league, what I can’t get behind is drafting the wrong guard. Mudiay was and has always been the better prospect, but because he was hidden in China people never got to see his true potential unless you saw him in high school. I will eat my words if I am wrong but I just don’t see Russell ever being worthy of a number 2 pick. Great player but even Rashad Vaughn was rated higher coming out of high school as a SG but because he played on a team that never had televised games he never got the exposure Russell did. It is comical how certain prospects get propped up by the talking heads at ESPN without really ever knowing what these players are like. My biggest comparison is Trey Burke (who the jury is still out on as far as an NBA Player), he wasn’t a highly rated recruit coming out of high school because of his size and athleticism limitations. He certainly had a remarkable college career which made him a sexy pick, but his limitations as a player are being magnified right now. I hope I am wrong but Okafor or Mudiay were better picks and anyone who has seen enough of Mudiay or Russell will agree. And if the front office put more stock in solo workouts then that is even more misguided. If LA didn’t put Mudiay against Russell in a 1 on 1 workout then they really messed up.
If Mudiay plays college ball last year he’s the top guard taken, it’s really that simple.
Like I said I really hope I am wrong because I would love to see a Kentucky native succeed in the NBA just don’t see it happening.
David says
I like Monroe more as a Five than a Four. He would be a 20 / 10 player. Aside from Butler, who is not coming, Monroe would be my target.
Chibi says
What do you guys think of Tristan thompson? He looked like a healthy Andrew Bynum in the playoffs.
Aaron says
Cats,
Amen!
David says
Chibi — Lebron has picked Thompson over Love. Tristan is staying with the King.
Warren Wee Lim says
Cats, I like you and admire your love for Mudiay but nothing you can do about it. Ranting about it at every post doesn’t look good.
CATS8884 says
Warren, I don’t love Mudiay I wanted Okafor. Merely trying to give some backstory most may not realize. If you don’t like what I have to say there is a scroll button.
Warren Wee Lim says
As for the topic at hand…
The Lakers cannot build a contender in 1 off-season even if we wanted to. Alot of our success will have to rely on health (Kobe and whichever vet we sign), development (Randle, Clarkson, Russell, and just about everyone else) and discipline (Young). You can’t just put all these guys on 1 gym, shake them together and expect instant championship results. You need time.
In terms of aspirations, the way the roster is built today, the Lakers are in need of bigs. But more importantly, mobile bigs that can defend with fluidity. We need to understand that a Marc Gasol, both unlikely and unrealistic is also a poor fit with what we want to run. We need someone that is a quasi-center PF that can hit the long ball (not three) and defend the PNR, that guy could be LaMarcus Aldridge.
In an age where 19yos rule the world, 30 is considered old. Even though in terms of basketball, that guy can outlive his contract of 4 years without having to worry about age. If he brings us championships, or close to it, we could always give him a decent farewell extension for age 34 and 35.
In terms of defensive potential, the key will be the development of other pieces like Randle, Black, Kelly and Sacre. Whoever we end up keeping from those. Signing a guy like Aldridge is focusing on offense but we know he is not going to win defensive player of the year anytime soon.
If you go the other route, and focus defensively, DeAndre Jordan should be the best fit. But whatever Aldridge gives you offensively, DJ is the complete opposite. His value on defense, I reckon can be negated with his uselessness on offense, the hack included.
At the end of the day, Mitch put the team in a good position to go shopping in the summer. If all else fails we can always trade for Roy Hibbert.
Warren Wee Lim says
Cats, I also wanted Okafor but like I mentioned on twitter and on here, I was growing more enamored w/ Dloading by the day because he gives us our best chance to be a playoff team on year 1. We will not be contenders, we will be fighting hard for that 8th seed, but atleast we’d have a chance assuming things go right on the next stage of summer.
The team still needs shooting everywhere. And more defense. Wherever can we find those.
rr says
The links below are Russell’s and Wall’s college stats–each of them played one year:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dangelo-russell-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/john-wall-1.html
—
Like I have said, I like Mudiay more than Russell as well. But the Russell’s rise isn’t the creation of ESPN–it is based on Russell’s skills and performance.
The argument against Russell is very simple: he will not be athletic enough. The argument against Mudiay is very simple as well: he can’t shoot. We will see how it plays out.
Anon says
I seriously question the intelligence of anyone who thinks all that ails us can be fixed in a single off season. Reality is that this is a process. I am not happy about where we are, but I am satisfied on where we now seem to be headed. Sure, it will take time. But that’s ok. It will make the victories taste that much better.
Anonymous says
Warren – LA is 30. It makes no sense to sign him. By the time we’re good enough he’ll be way on his downside of his career. Not a good move. Better to sign Monroe who is only 24 and will still be only 27 if it takes the Lakers 3 years to gel.
DJ says
I like Okafor too, but i think Lakers are not sure when you pick 19 years old big men, will he be good or you will get another headache Bynum ? picking PG is a safe choice, if he will be good, people will call you a genius, if not he won’t be dissapointed to much. I know some fan who want Marc Gasol or Kevin Love, in my opinion, both of these guys can’t carry the teams, Marc Gasol can’t dominate the average Bogut of Golden St, so we should not sign him, Love always was injured every years. Alridge can give Lakers a scorer inside, and if Lakers can find 2 more scorers outside, Lakers will be good, look at San Antonio Tim Duncan is old, but they got good outside shooters.
smokedaddy says
Wow, CAT, sit down, grab a beer and take a look! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHCG2-c2rrQ I love this vid. Rusell may not be as strong or fast as, say Westbrook or Wall or Rose, but still a very good athlete to go with the court vision. Shooting it could be argued, is largely mechanics. But great passers are born, not made. This will sound ridiculous but to me Russell is a combination of Cousy and Steph and J West. I’d say Magic or Big O or Lebron but he clearly lacks the body/physicality of these guys. True, he won’t blow through the lane like Westbrook and co., but then again, these guys don’t have his creativity or vision. Not to mention that just because he’s not a 10 on the speed/jumping scale, he’s still very good, probably an 8. Truthfully, the kid really does remind me of Curry or Harden but with a little more height and reach and a little more of a pass mentality and vision. Now, of these three, Curry has just now started to play some D. I suspect Russell will start to D up long before 6 years are out. That’s my one main concern. My other concern is that Kobe will resist becoming a more traditional off guard, moving without the ball, catching & shooting, etc. We don’t need Kobe handling the ball for more than 3-5 seconds before shooting or passing. So, yes this kid’s progress and the team’s progress will largely depend on Kobe.
But I’m really encouraged how this kid handles himself. Truthfully, I was an Okafor advocate but came to the point where I’d be equally happy either way. I really do like this kid a lot. Can’t wait for the season.
Cats8884 says
Rr, I agree with everything you’ve said except for the media rise comment. Yes it’s because of his skills but TV exposure is huge in college ball. Behind the scenes many shoe companies like Nike push recruits to schools where they will get more exposure, it helps their brand and gets the kids buzz going particularly if they are one and dones. Kentucky particularly gets tons of recruits because of their connection with Nike. Trey Lyles was an Indiana university (Adidas school) commit until Nike pushed him to decommit and go to UK. His handlers felt he would get more exposure at UK and it would help Nike in the process. Rashad Vaughn is the biggest victim of this class besides Mudiay, unless you live in that area how many people actually saw a televised game of him at UNLV. Some may say they have because they live on the west coast or have a conference cable package but I assure you he didn’t get a single game televised on the east coast. Guys at ESPN like Jeff Goodman who are terrible at analyzing basketball hype guys like Doug McDermott as can’t miss prospects. Fran Frischilla is another joke of an analyst, how often does he talk negatively about an international player. The worst thing he ever says is “he’s a year away from being ready” aka he’s not good enough to play in the NBA.
mindcrime says
Cats….you’re right about Ohio State being a pretty mediocre team other than Russell but you lost me with the “weak conference ” comment. The Big ten wasn’t exceptional this year but it did produce half of the final four. Also, the officiating in the big ten (swallow those whistles men) breeds low scoring brutally physical basketball games. (I should know I watch all or parts of several of them as an Iowa fan). That Russell put up the numbers he did in that physical environment is telling.
As for his less scintillating performances against the upper echelon. .. remember the mediocre parts around him. A good coach with a group of superior players can focus on shutting down a guy like Russell and live with other guys trying to beat him.
Otoh I agree that Russell has undeniable physical limitations that Mudiay won’t have to overcome. As usual, rr is right (or at least has boiled the question down fairly succinctly). if Mudiay learns to shoot he probably has the better pro career, regardless of what Russell does (BTW I’m going on record as being wrong to have previously compared Mudiay to Exum).
Kaleo says
The draft was very interesting to say the least. Russell at #2, but the selection grew on me. I’m not sure what this says about Clarkson – All Rookie First Team? With Kobe coming back…..do we use a three guard system? Love Kobe but really with these past few seasons…..I’m ready to say “Thanks For the Memories”, and leave it at that. I’ve been a Lakers fan since the late 60’s, like all of us – it was very difficult as a fan to have gone through the past 3 or so years. Russell, is not an athletic player, but neither was Curry coming out. He developed and viola, he’s one of the leagues best. I love the title of this article – can’t go for a home run in one year. The rebuild is going to take time, but having or getting the fit pieces is a good start. Nancy’s selection was like from another planet? Who the heck – anyone out there, who the heck had Nance on your depth chart??? That pick should’ve gone on someone else! I really hope Nance proves me and possibly other wrong with his hard blue collar ( ala Kurt Rambis ) work ethic. Explaining his tweet will be another issue. I like the Anthony Brown, but still feel like trying to get Tonias Harris is a good thing we should try and do. Of the Centers available, obviously DAJ would be my pick, but it ain’t gonna happen. Neither is Gasol and he is too old anyway. Cousins got demon issues. Man can play but could be a major distraction. I like the fact that we got Upshaw as a free agent, but there again, the jury is out he could be in the same category as Cousins. Hopefully, hopefully not. He’s big, he’s strong, he can DEFEND……love Jimmy Butler but I think the Bulls counter. The players we’ve got to lose – Boozer, LIn, Johnson, Jordan Hill might fetch something….possibly Nick I ain’t got no defence Young as well? Athleticism – being able to create for yourself are two things I noticed in this year’s Finals. Golden State has it, Cleveland doesn’t.
Maybe even Byron as HC needs to be looked at? This year will soon tell. He was “suppose” to limit Kobe’s minutes but couldn’t – ouch. The staff definitely needs a defensive minded hard nosed coach that can share sound defensive fundamentals. Keep Brown, Black, Kelly?, Ed Davis, get a FA possibly two. But this process is going to take another 2-3 years.
Gene says
Okafor and Wiggins{Minn)..is better than Russell and Randle?….F/A signings will be huge.
Anonymous says
DeAndre Jordan this year + Kevin Durant next year = multiple years of championships
Baylor Fan says
Darius – Kupchak needs to give you a job writing his press releases. Maybe the Laker nation would be more understanding with your explanations of the process. Forty wins would be a major achievement next season let alone making the playoffs.
The best thing about the Russell pick for me is that it shows the Lakers course going forward. The team will be built to run and also play defense. Nance and Brown are noted for having high basketball IQ and the ability to play both ends of the floor. It is reassuring that maybe the Lakers are moving on from players who are more one dimensional. These seem like players Jerry West would like.
Kbj says
DeAndre Jordan is great at rebounding and defense, but his free throws worries me. We saw how the Spurs and Houston was able to effectively take the Clippers out of their rhythm by continually hacking Jordan. He averaged .397 ft percentage in the regular season and .427 in the playoffs last season. This is reaching Ben Wallace levels of terrible free throw shooting.
However, Ben Wallace did win a championship against the Lakers and he did make the all-star team 4 times. Maybe DeAndre Jordan can be our Ben Wallace.
R says
The clips can pay more even tho DJ is unrestricted right?
Mentioning Ben Wallace vs lakers reminds me of the Finals game where he missed a ft, rebounded his own shot, and laid it in. Now that’s just wrong!
rr says
The clips can pay more even tho DJ is unrestricted right?
Yes.
Keno says
I am good with Russell. Very worried about the team use of a computer though. How could they pick Nance without to a social media check to read his hate filled comments about Kobe and the Colorado thing? My 10 year old could have pulled that up!
What do they use when checking players out? 2 tin cans with wires. That shows a very poor research staff and a stone age mentality. Real dumb.
R says
rr thanks for confirming … Then I’d wonder why DJ would entertain leaving a very good team to come to the Lakers for less money? I mean, he’s already in L.A.
rr says
Then I’d wonder why DJ would entertain leaving a very good team to come to the Lakers for less money?
—
Right. I see no reason to think that any of Gasol, Aldridge, or Jordan would want to be here. Love, Monroe, or Asik maybe.
Vasheed says
I have to disagree Darius. Fixing a team when you have the baggage from the previous season of bad contracts, players who don’t fit, injuries, etc. then yes it can be hard to move the needle in that situation which described the Lakers lately. This year the slate was wiped relatively clean. As long as Mitch does his home work and gets the right guys then there is no reason there cannot be dramatic improvement. Make the wrong moves and sure you can fail but, I have some faith and well I can’t be too pessimistic. Mitch is going about doing pretty much everything I asked for over the last 2 months.
Russell – Check
Upshaw – Check
Sign a big in free agency – Pending (D. Jordan is one of my choices)
Trade Young – Pending
Oldtimer says
If we ever lure a Center, it has to be a creative package heavy on the back end due to expiring contract of Kobe. Sell what sizzles in the Lakers not the dismay and pessimism. I’m also for Okafor but I have to believe the choice os Scott/Mitch maybe Jimbo too. Here is a philosophy I do adhere “if you cannot get what you like, you have to learn to love what you have and move on from there.” We are expecting too much from a 19 year old kid who has great fundamentals as a PG, he is a fascilitator that feeds the flock, focus on that strength than exaggerating the weaknesses.
We can’t be choosy with meager resources unless Jimmy is willing to pay luxury taxes like his late Dad. He should be ready to spend for good players who are willing to play with the Lakers, the loyal fans are willing to pay him back with a good rate of return. I’m not expert on the CBA rules, supposing we exceed the cap and offer $15m/$15m as starting salary of a 3 year deal heavy on back-end, do you think that would be enough to convince Love, Aldridge or one of the Lopez brothers? What sizzles with the Lakers is our brand, our diversified loyal fans and power of this big market. Where can you find passionate fans who would follow this team even if they are contending in the bottom of the league? They embraced this team wholeheartedly even if they are so disgruntled with all the drama of the main cast. Sell the pride of being a Laker to Love and Aldridge and start from there. As the Chinese say, a journey to a thousand start with the first step. Same with the Lakers let us think of winning than lamenting on what was missed in the draft.
Darius Soriano says
Regarding DeAndre Jordan, reports are of a rift between him and Chris Paul. I could imagine him leaving the Clippers for a different situation. I would think the Lakers would be behind a team the Spurs, but the Mavs, while they had a much better season last year than the Lakers, are likely to lose Ellis, gave up useful assets for Rondo, and right now look to be a team built around an aging Dirk and Chandler Parsons.
Again, I don’t know what Jordan would do, but the Lakers have young players who can be viewed as “on the rise”, can offer a lot of money (less than the Clippers, of course), and a major role in a city he’s lived in for his entire career. I’m not getting my hopes up by any means, but the Lakers have a viable pitch. As for Aldridge, a recent report said the Spurs would still be in the lead, but the Lakers would have passed the Mavs on his list of possible destinations.
I don’t see Gasol leaving and I don’t think the Lakers will have much interest in Monroe.
Aaron says
Calvin,
I don’t think this team will be good enough to have better than a bottom five record. Talent wise. as always I go just off talent. It will be 50/50 if we keep our pick this year.
And I still have faith this pick was for a Cousins trade where we end up with Mudiay. I still have faith in our FO.
rr says
Regarding DeAndre Jordan, reports are of a rift between him and Chris Paul.
–
I have read that, and have have read that he wants more touches, All-Star games, etc. But winning + money are powerful combination, and he is from Texas. So I think that he will stay with the Clippers or go to Dallas. Aldridge I think is headed to San Antonio. But of course I simply don’t know. These are just guesses.
Brook Lopez officially opted out today, so he is on the market as well. My guess is that the Lakers would interest him, as would the Clippers, if Jordan walks.
One problem with all this spec, as I said upthread, is the money tied up in Kobe, and to a lesser extent, Young. Finally, there is now spec that Orlando, having drafted Hezonja, may let Harris walk.
Michael says
A few of you have mentioned age as being an an issue via signing free agents looking for a championship run: Aldridge, Gasol. Why not consider above average utility players to strengthen the front court, who won’t demand as much in return? How about Robin Lopez? As far as I know he isn’t too old, plays good defense, hustles, and doesn’t make waves.
Nick says
Were talking about D Russell like everything is black and white. Relax the kid can play, and most importantly maintains our flexability when trying to integrate potential new players.
the FA theme I think we need to follow is YOUTH and POSITION FLEXABILITY. Tobias Harris, Jimmy Butler, Greg Moroe, DeAndre Jordan & Love (to a lesser extent). I think Aldridge makes us instantly a 50 win team, but I’m not about a quick fix, I want long term consistent success.
We are on the rise, no doubt. A 40 win season this year and play time for our young guns Randle, Clarkson, Russell, Upshaw, Brown is invaluable and a major win for the Lakers.
Sign Monroe this offseason, and wait for the big boys to line up in 2016 when Kobes contract is off the books.
Andrew says
I wanted to respond to all the negative comments re: Russell, but honestly the Grantland piece scouting Russell, Okafor and Towns is more persuasive than I could ever be. I’d trust the opinion of scouts more than any of ours. And I quote:
Scout 3: “I liked him right away when I saw him in the McDonald’s game. Us scouts were sitting together saying, “Man … ” It really excites you to see a young guy with creativity and vision. He thinks like a point guard, but then he’s talented, quick enough to get his shot.
I was really eager to see him earlier this year at Louisville, going into that lion’s den. A year ago, he’s in high school, now he’s in the Yum Yum Center with 20,000 people. He gathered himself, he figured it out, and he put his team in a position to win that game. It took him awhile to realize the level of intensity, the quickness, and the things he had to adjust to. I thought, That’s really impressive.
Midway through the year, people caught on and started to realize how good he was.
I think he can be in that upper tier of point guards. He has that kind of feel for the game. He’ll be even better with better players. Ohio State wasn’t very good. He averaged 19 points per game in the Big Ten as a freshman. And they aren’t always running up and down in that league, either. They [Big Ten opponents] sent everything they could at this kid. He didn’t have any great shooters to give him a release. There weren’t a lot of great options offensively. The kid responded every time.”
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ryen-russillos-nba-draft-confidential-real-scouts-on-towns-russell-and-okafor/
fern says
Well, when Dwight left I knew we were going to have to rebuild, we could not hide that fact anymore, and after these last two seasons I feel he Laker are going in the right direction and I always feel most of the criticism directed toward the FO was misguided, I believe and I said it before that the Lakers made the moves that we re accustomed to and those were great moves, the VETO, the Howard and Nash events were moves that just didn’t worked out. After that I knew it was going to be painful, it as obvious the Lakers needed to do 2 things, get the cap situation under control and get younger, we all discussed those here ad nauseum, and let me tell you this, it has taken a lot less time that a lot of people thought, the Lakers are in a pretty good position right now, we are younger and looks like we are building a young core with cap space and as much as Jimbo is blasted here and other sites some warranted some not so much but at least it looks to me that he is stepping aside a bit and letting Mitch do his job. After the passing of the Good Doctor it was obvious there was going to be some disarray, but I feel confident going fwd., we could be in eternal rebuilding mode like the Sixers. Unless something dramatic happens like Mitch doing his ninja thing, a playoffs spot is doubtful but I think the team is poised to leap forward, I know we are entitled fans (not a entitled as Knicks fans lol) but we need to have a little more patience, we are closer to the end of the tunnel than to the beginning.
grumpy says
Originally, I was more for Okafor over Russell, but in reality, my stance started to soften leading up to the draft. Frankly, I believe both players will have great careers and wish there was a way we could have gotten both. While the rumor is that Russell killed his second workout (compared to Okafor), you have to think that the Lakers at least considered what is currently working in the NBA. Play-making guards who can shoot the 3, which is exactly what Russell is, are successful. From the center position, there is an expectation of being able to shore up the team’s defense and act as a rim protector, which is possibly why the Lakers viewed Okafor as a lesser option. It doesn’t hurt that Russell may be a better fit next to Randle, who is not known as a defensive player (at least for now).
Also, high school rankings are an incomplete way to look at things. For example, take a look at this one:
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-2993/0
Karl Anthony Towns was #5 on this list and now he was widely considered the #1 prospect. And guess what? The guy who ranked above him at the #4 spot (Cliff Alexander) wasn’t even drafted. And while I’m not saying to completely throw these rankings out the window, it’s important to remember that a lot can change in a year.
In any case, I don’t expect the Lakers to be playoff locks this year, but I am excited to start the journey and see what our young players can do.
Renato Afonso says
I’m almost with CATs on this one. It’s not that Russell is or will be a bad player. It’s about having better options. I don’t know much about Mudiay but, to me, Okafor was simply a better choice and an easier one to build a team around.
Here’s my take…
We are not trying to turn things around to reach the playoffs. We’re trying to make a run at the championship but going through the stage where we are fighting for a low playoff seed is a step in the right direction. No, we don’t need o turn things around in one offseason but we should take the biggest step possible without decreasing the chances of reaching the ultimate goal. With Okafor, who could probably hold his own on low post defense even if he isn’t a tremendous shot blocker, it’s easier to fill the remainder positions. As long as those perimeter players are good defensively, he’s not a liability. Russell, so far, is a liability on defense and the kind of liability that other perimeter players can cover. Now we need that shot blocker and because we can only get him in free agency, we’ll probably have to overpay him.
Look, there are several ways to win it all and I wrote an entire post dedicated to grinding and low post offense. Okafor fits that mold. Russell may be able to produce an entirely different type of offense that requires different players around him. I don’t think he’s good enough to be a game changer, the type of PG that can carry you for long stretches in the playoffs when the opposing defense has taken your normal sets out of the picture. And it’s not about the number off all-star selections. It’s about being a perennial all-star caliber player. Russell doesn’t seem to be but maybe he’ll get more lateral quickness and develop his off hand. But his development is certainly harder than Okafor’s, whom just needed to work harder on defense and improve his FT% (which isn’t that difficult) as he had the hard part already figured out. If we got Russell with the 4th pick I would be extremely happy… I hope I’m wrong. I really do.
Any_one_mouse says
Sixers have to be thinking of moving Embiid, now that Okafor is there. There’s a HUGE risk with his health, but I’m wondering whether we can/should tempt them with a package centered around Clarkson (include someone like say Lin in a sign-and-trade to match salaries ) in return for Embiid + our #1 from next year?
If Embiid’s health issues aren’t persistent, we are selling high on Clarkson and buying low on Embiid.
I just don’t see a combo backcourt of Clarkson and DR guarding anyone. Plus it’s going to hold both of their development back.
Of course this is all dependent on Embiid’s health going forward. If it holds up, we have our center for the next 10 years.
Any_one_mouse says
Based on this link, Tobias Harris is the template for Julius Randle.
http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2015/05/06/the-nbas-most-underrated-player/
fern says
Why in the hell would be trade a promising young player like Clarkson and a draft pick to boot for Greg Oden 2.0, it makes absolutely no sense, c’mon now. I rather have Sacre as our regular center than Embiid.
mindcrime says
Sorry, I can’t get those pictures of out of shape Embiid out of my mind. We already have one guy with uncertain “base” issues (randle) but at least that guy tried to stay in shape.
Any_one_mouse says
Embiid was out of shape last season because of his injuries. By all accounts he has was back to his playing weight, and dominating workouts before his most recent set back. I see the urge to map him to Oden, but I think they are very different issues.
I understand the risk. Worst case scenario we are trading Clarkson for a lottery pick next year. Depending on how well/bad you think the Lakers will do next year, and how well you think the Lakers draft, that may be (again, worst case scenario assuming Embiid doesn’t work out) a fair trade.
fern says
Yeah, that’s the ticket. give a good up and coming NBA player and a Draft pick for a guy that is not healthy and have not play a single NBA game, yeah that makes sense. SMDH
Shaun says
Darius – surprised you don”t think they will go after monroe
Personally i think it will be moroe or robin lopez ….guys like deandre, gasol,and love will all take 20mil per to sign and they all have reasons to stay but if people are looking to sign a shorter deal to sign a 2nd contract once the cap goes up gives us a small chance but i can see of their home teams doing that for them as well
Monroe is the only true free agent out there and i could see rlopez leaving if LA leaves as portland would probably want to give plumlee time to grow … unless we wanted asik but that guy has no hands at all can’t catch shit on pnr worthless to us … i also think its highly probable we resign hill …. i lile him more than davis he can do more plus hes heavier …was still a good player for us last year … aminu or crowder would be the other guy id go for as a secondry sf
Cap space -24m
Monroe/lopez -15m
Hill – 5-6mil – 3-4 years
Aminu/crowder – 4-5 mil
And in reality wesley johnson could be a stop gap again at sf … still athletic,shoots 3s averages a steal and block when playing …. hes not great but yes not terrible either
Anonymous says
Kaleo,
Nance is a senior and we not only have his workout, but quite a bit of video on him. He is 6’9″ with long arms, constant motor. The front office has seen him develop over 4 yrs – the footage is available for Wyoming games. He was the heart of the Wyoming team, taking them to the dance for the first time in 13 years. Does a 6’9″ banger, who can score seem like someone we could use? Think a bigger Faried – or Rambis.
My understanding is that they felt Brown would be available in the 2nd round, but Nance’s stock was quickly rising and he would be taken by #34. I know the mock drafts had him in the 50s, but those were done weeks in advance of the draft and – particularly the lower places – can change quite a bit as workouts are completed. Perhaps they discovered a team or two who had him in for workouts – he went to many – and really liked him, therefore they took him at #27.
Craig W. says
Kaleo,
Nance is a senior, heart of a Wyoming team going to the dance for the 1st time in 13 years, and his dad is an NBA vet. He is 6’9″, high motor guy, with long arms and a shooting touch. Sort of a larger Faried or a Rambis. Tell me we don’t need that to compliment Randle on the 2nd team?
With four years at Wyoming, we have lots of video on his development and he attended lots of workouts in June – his blog talked about his extensive air miles. It is entirely possible one of Mitch’s contacts talked about his other workouts and the Lakers realized he would probably would be taken before #34, but Brown was more likely to be there.
As a senior, we expect him to be able to contribute much faster than a freshman/soph. While he might not have as high a ceiling, his floor is probably much higher than other picks. Russell was an attempt at a Home Run, Nance and Brown may be attempts at singles/doubles. Mitch previously said he didn’t want to develop too many rookies at the same time. The draft of two seniors means he won’t have as much work in this area.
tankyou says
Barring some real good defensive free agent signings, the Lakers are going to be worse defensively this year. Clarkson/Russell aren’t good defensively, Clarkson maybe can be OK, I think Russell is going to get burnt big time, and his calling card is going to be how amazing offensively he can be. We don’t have a starting caliber SF yet, nor Center.
Randle is going to struggle defensively more than offensively, but maybe he can become a pretty good all around defensive PF given his speed and strength.
Kobe is going to be even worse defensively, and last year he was bloody horrible. IF they move Kobe to SF to try and hide him even more against some teams, then our wing defenders are going to get owned. So we better have Marc Gasol or somebody signficant to deter around the rim, if we get Monroe–we will likely still be in contention for a lottery pick next season. Rooting for lottery picks again, will make me want to vomit, having to spend year after year watching other teams to see a semblence of good basketball, yipee.
Cats8884 says
Mindcrime I watch the big ten every year and this was the weakest I’ve seen it in years. I would argue college basketball was the weakest I’ve seen it too as evidenced by UK and Virginia both almost going undefeated when both teams weren’t as great as teams of previous years. Michigan state made the final four because they had the easiest bracket I’ve ever seen. Wisconsin was the only good team from that conference last year. But you can view it how you want, put Russell in a more athletic conference like the ACC and he struggles even worse as evidenced by how her performed against Louisville and Arizona.
Andrew I’d love to talk to that scout as he watched that Louisville game and see why he thought a guy going 6-20 with 4 turnovers and only 6 assists was so special. He couldn’t score against a guy like Terry Rozier who went 18th in the draft.
But enough debate about this, we will see how he does in summer league.
Oldtimer says
What Darius posted is interesting however the question is why was there a rift between Paul and Jordan? Is it because Jordan’s presence on the court becomes a liability to whatever Clippers strategies executing because of his poor performance on FT line? That rift could happen with our young PG. The league has to change the rules on intentional fouls. Perhaps, that is also the reason why Okafor was not chosen?
Well, when the news came out that Aldridge was opting out, Spurs are his priority and Lakers are closing in, there was sudden surge of DR popularity to be chosen coming from from Kevin Ding’s reports. Is this being relayed by the agents of Aldridge? I also heard that Aldridge’s summer home is in Orange County, that could be a home court advantage. As I said in previous post, sell to Love and Aldridge the gold mine attached to signing with the Lakers. This is the place he wants to be, there is a void of Superstar by 2016. for Aldridge he has been staying for too long in a small market, what about sleeping in his home in OC 50 per cent of the time plus a chance of getting some movie contracts/promos. “LaMarcus time to dream big and hitch your wagon with the stars.” The same persuasion to Love, he experienced the excitement and the endless love playing with the Bruins, Kevin, “come back and lead the Lakers who needs an inspirational leader after Kobe’s memorable career is done. Forget the instant money now, everybody knows this place can reward you with your dreams if you deserve it.”
Think big Kevin, LaMarcus join the Lakers Championship parade in 2018, grow with the Lakers.
BigCitySid says
-@ Keno, I share your concerns. If there was ever a reason to talk w/ a current player pertaining to acquiring another, this is it.
– Staying w/ my current projection/expectation of a “successful” upcoming season:
1) avoiding a 3rd straight 50 loss season
2) improving from 14th place in the West to 12th or 11th w/b amazing. Why? We can’t look at our team in a vacuum. All of last season’s eight Western play-off teams will still be strong competitors. Mavs & ‘Blazers look to fall back and will probably fight it out w/ the Thunder (9) and Jazz (10). T’Wolves will be improved (11)), not sure about Suns, but don’t see them worst than 12th. Our guys should beat out the Kings & Nuggets.
3) Randle, Russell, & Clarkson averaging at least 30 mpg. Best way to see if these guys will be future core guys w/ the Lakers
4) keeping Kobe’s usage% under his career average of 31.8 (is that too much to ask?) so as not to retard the growth of the new kids on the block. His peers have done it, and it’s allowed their teams a measure of success last season (Duncan/Spurs, Dirk/Mavs, Pierce/Wizards).
– I reserve the right to update these projections based on what our Lakers and the other teams do w/ free agency.
“Everybody is Entitled to My Opinion”
Warren Wee Lim says
I agree about Seniors being quasi-NBA players themselves. They seem like they are a year ahead of the freshmen, since late 1sts or early 2nds do not get much attention like the prized picks.
D’Angelo Russell is a great pick due to his superstar potential and because free agency hosts alot of big men that would compliment what we are doing here. If we are merely looking for reasons or rationales where these big time free agents go, why not the Lakers? If we pay the same amount w/ Dallas, aside from state income tax, how is Dallas better than Los Angeles? Unless everyone just “went home” when they become free agents then we’ll simply just lock them up with such assumptions.
Players choose, agents influence them and teams try to offer something more than fans can see or hear. At the end of the day, I bet those Texas teams that are “leading” contenders to sign X player fear the possibility of the Lakers offering max.
The beauty of our situation is now we sort of control our destiny. Russell, Clarkson and Randle represent a very promising trio of young players that have contracts for atleast 3 seasons and perhaps more via restricted free agency. For once, the cup is not bare. For once, we have a future even without desperately signing someone a bloated contract just to have a chance at 8th seed.
Now there’ll always be criticism on what we do, be it sign someone young or someone old, but I love where we are right now. Yesterday is in the past. I like where I am today.
CATS8884 says
Darius,
I follow you on twitter and find your tweet taking a shot at me for what I am saying as a little childish. If you have an issue with what I am saying address it to me on here, don’t go misrepresenting my point about athleticism by saying I was comparing Trey Burke to Russell game wise I clearly did not, I said they both had success in college and I merely stated they both have athleticism issues, which Russell admitted himself in an interview with DraftExpress.
You can disagree with me but I could care less that’s the fun in discussing sports. I am not an expert but as I have maintained my best friend is paid to do this for a living and he watches these guys more than any scout on any NBA team (except for international guys). He sent me a video of himself in LA watching Andrew Wiggins yesterday in a gym with 3 other people, 2 weeks ago he did the same with Kelly Oubre Jr. He knows these kids personally and sees stuff most will never know.
LKK says
Have to admit that initially I was very disappointed that the Lakers passed on Okafor. I thought that the cavity at center was so gaping that the team would address it immediately. However, if Mitch plans to find front court solutions in free agency then we will wait and hope for the best.
I saw both players on several occasions and came away thinking JO was a better option, but the Lakers had the benefit of much closer inspection of both players and as such I’ll defer to their judgment. As always, time will tell.
Really hoping that Upshaw turns out to be a real find. I would also love for the team to retain Ed Davis. A team with suspect bigs just makes me nervous, sort of like forgetting to lock my front door when going to work. Guess I’m old school in that regard.
Keno says
Name of the day I am hearing.
Brook Lopez signs with Lakers.
Darius Soriano says
CATS,
Only so much of a point I can make on twitter with 140 characters. If you feel a certain way, that’s fine. I don’t expect people to agree with me. But you’re comparing pro prospects off HS recruiting classes. You’re comparing players based on level of play faced while both acknowledging team strength but not how team strength creates context and impacts individual performance. You’re purposefully highlighting negatives and not speaking about strengths or other qualities that speak to how successful a player can be. Fact is, using such a limited scope of evaluation and then speaking as if these things are what should matter most is, honestly, not to be taken seriously.
You want me to address you on here, there you go. Frankly, I tire of the comments on this board from fans like you, Robert, Aarron, and others who speak as if they know it all or are infallible in their opinion and speak with a condescending tone every other post. If all of you just went away, I wouldn’t mind. That might sound harsh, but I get emails from other readers who comment now, used to comment but do not anymore, who complain about these specific posters as well as complain about the tenor of the comments on the board. You think I like getting emails like these? Would you?
Darius Soriano says
Also, I’d add, why make a comparison to Burke at all, then? Why is it important how a player is perceived or reported on, when what really matters is the tape and, beyond that, the pre-draft process which no one on this board was a part of. So, players who have success in college who share a single deficiency are now comparable. What about the different in size, length, shooting ability, floor vision, etc, etc? Don’t these things matter as well? I mean, I could just as easily compare Okafor to Shaq in how he bullied college opponents and used quick spins to get shots off against players who could not manage his strength and had to lean on him to try to keep him off the block. But doing that would be silly. There’s more to comping players than single positive or negative traits with little to no additional context added. So, yeah.
Craig W. says
Darius,
I support you and your frustration.
I know I am thought of as a Laker front office homer, but I do try to see both positive and negative sides of issues. The reason I mention the positives about players like Larry Nance Jr is that what we so often hear about is – ‘he was rated #50 in a mock draft’ and ‘he Tweeted something about Kobe 3 years ago’, when he was an immature 19.
On Nance Jr.: Mitch noted that, on their film history he showed continual improvement and leadership over his 4 years at Wyoming. About Kobe: if he brings all of his effort and talent to every play, Kobe will have no problems with him – if that is enough to help the team win. If he doesn’t have the talent to ‘stick’, Kobe will turn away from him quickly – it’s that simple.
With Jordan Hill tending toward fade-aways last season, Tarik Black and Ed Davis were the only true energy guys in our front court. We need a bruising energy bunny on our team next year and Ed Davis probably priced himself out of the Laker’s budget with his play.
CATS8884 says
Darius, I presented the context in high school as to why Mudiay fell unfairly in this draft compared to Russell as he went overseas (I threw numbers out just as a contextual tool). People get rankings wrong all of the time, heck the guys at Draft Express had Cliff Alexander as the number 2 pick preseason. Russell can shoot absolutely, he can pass absolutely but my whole point has been about athleticism. You can call that limited scope, but when it is one of the most important things in the NBA I don’t think it’s a big deal to highlight. Point is we are discussing stuff, the draft happened two days ago, is this not what this site is for? Basketball discussion? I continually say on my posts I am not an expert, but I am not allowed to share an opinion on a blog? Guys like Aaron may annoy me like I may annoy you, but just by being on here they add certain aspects to discussions. Everyone has a different viewpoint and sees things differently, that doesn’t make them wrong or without value.
This is your blog you can do whatever you want with it, I will be removing myself from it since you say I rub people the wrong way (Funny thing is you tire of my comments when I comment basically once a year around draft time). I prefer people to confront me when they have an issue with me as thats how all things should be handled, not behind their backs. If people e-mail you they should probably just ignore the posters they don’t like just as you can unfollow someone on twitter.
karen says
Doesn’ anyone find it interesting lakers did not pick oakur when their old school coach and his cheerleaders wanted an inside game and had disdain for the 3 point shot to the point last yr players were not able to freely shoot 3’s.
Fern says
@cats athelticism is a tool but not bc a guy is atheltic it don’t necesarily means he is that good, want an example? Wesley Johnson, je is an atheltic freak, but let’s face it, he is a scrub, the Lakers didn’t give him just one chance, they gave him two chances and he is just not that good. The NBA is full of athletic players that are perennial dnp-cd or on their way out of the league because they can’t play, has anyone ever acussed CP of being athletic? Steve Nash? Jason Kidd? Isaiah Thomas? Dirk? Pau? Kobe on his prime was an athletic mutant but it took a lot of other skills abd god given
David says
If you could sign one of: Monroe, Love, Alridge or Jordan. Who would it be? My age/production calculation leads me to Monroe or Jordan.
The Lopez twins: one is overpaid and brittle the other is a backup.
Aaron says
Fern,
Johnson is a bad NBA athlete. He lacks strength, quickness, and coordination.
Nash- Elite coordination and quickness
Dirk- Elite coordination
Pau- Elite coordination and quickness
Kidd- Elite speed, coordination, strength
Isiah-elite everything!!!!!
CP3- elite speed, quickness, coordination
BigCitySid says
-@ Fern, pertaining to Embiid, because in sports, people (not just fans, but owners and their FO’s too) are eternal optimist. How else can a fan of the Jazz, T’ Wolves, Magic, or Hornets ever truly believe their teams can one day become an NBA champion. So instead of focusing on the injury plagued big men you mentioned, they look at the successful comebacks of Al Jefferson, Brooks Lopez, and Kendrick Perkins.
Fern says
I inderstand that Aaron but “he is sooo athletic” see what i mean? He was atheltic and he is quick and can do things other players can’t he is just not that good. I cut my other comment in half by mistake. i was saying that among others Larry Bird was one of the most unathletic players you can ever seen, but he has talent. Talent alone beats athelticism alone all the time. Is rare to have players with a combination of both. Atlethicsm fades with age, talent last longer. Miudiay can be a great athlete but that wont help him make his FTs or hit 40% beyond the arc.
CATS8884 says
Fern, I totally agree it isn’t the only tool but it is an important one. It just seems silly to me that we can only discuss Russell’s positives as a player, his ability as a shooter and playmaker has been highlighted a billion times, it is why he was drafted. I never said he won’t be great (because great is relative to what you are expecting from the guy for example you may expect him to carry the franchise like Kobe while another guy may expect him to be a facilitator) I just said he wasn’t worth the second pick to me and that is just my opinion, I was voicing concerns. Having skills and fundamentals is what gives players longevity until their bodies can no longer hold up. Genetics can be improved but only to a certain degree, it is his most concerning feature. If you can’t separate from your man how will you score, can you even use your passing ability to find an open teammate. These are all valid concerns. In regard to Johnson one can argue he is only athletic and has no refined skills which is what makes him below average. Time will tell, as I have said before I hope I am wrong. This will be my last post so good luck to everyone. Hope Julius proves me right and takes the league by storm.
Casual Fan says
I’m a bit confused why people are still trying to get LaMarcus Aldrige or Kevin Love. Now that we have Russel, Clarkson, Bryant, and Randle, shouldn’t we try to trade for a real center and preferably someone with defensive chops? It doesn’t look like the 2 above fits the bill…
I’d say De’Andre Jordan and Marc Gasol fits what the team needs most at this point…
Fern says
I understand that Sid, but i was refering to a trade that would make fans go to El Segundo facility and burn it to the ground i would bring the gasoline lol . And Aaron about those traits you mentioned, thats exactly what im refering too, there are myriad other attributes that players need to be suscesful. they dont need to run the floor at 40mph or they dunk and their heads are above the rim or can dunk from the ft line. Btw i hope im not in that group Darius. 90% of the time i dont know what im talking about, but it’s nice to talk,vent and guess and say dumb things with people that share the same obsesive love I have for this team. The Lakerss were my first love.
George says
Casual : Gasol is too old, he’s 30 and will be 33 or so before we gel enough to compete. If you want a pure center – target Jordan who is 26. If you want a hybrid (center/forward) then pursue Monroe, who is 24.
Anonymous says
CATS —
After watching Mudiay clang shot after shot after shot after shot…. it’s easy to pass up on him and why he fell in this draft. Rondo 2.0.
————————————————
“You want me to address you on here, there you go. Frankly, I tire of the comments on this board from fans like you, Robert, Aarron, and others who speak as if they know it all or are infallible in their opinion and speak with a condescending tone every other post. If all of you just went away, I wouldn’t mind. That might sound harsh, but I get emails from other readers who comment now, used to comment but do not anymore, who complain about these specific posters as well as complain about the tenor of the comments on the board. You think I like getting emails like these? Would you?
———-
Haha…Amen! The most annoying people (in any environment) are the ones who know it all and have the answer to everything, and who are one-sided in their point of view. The mind is closed but the mouth is open.
Palabra says
CATS —
After watching Mudiay clang shot after shot after shot after shot…. it’s easy to pass up on him and why he fell in this draft. Rondo 2.0.
————————————————
“You want me to address you on here, there you go. Frankly, I tire of the comments on this board from fans like you, Robert, Aarron, and others who speak as if they know it all or are infallible in their opinion and speak with a condescending tone every other post. If all of you just went away, I wouldn’t mind. That might sound harsh, but I get emails from other readers who comment now, used to comment but do not anymore, who complain about these specific posters as well as complain about the tenor of the comments on the board. You think I like getting emails like these? Would you?
———-
Haha…Amen! The most annoying people (in any environment) are the ones who know it all and have the answer to everything, and who are one-sided in their point of view. The mind is closed but the mouth is open.
Any_one_mouse says
Fern,
“Atlethicsm fades with age, talent last longer. Miudiay can be a great athlete but that wont help him make his FTs or hit 40% beyond the arc.”
Athleticism won’t help him make his fts, but attitude will. We are talking about 19 year old kids – what’s to say these kids won’t improve? I don’t have a strong opinion on Mudiay v/s Russell – time will tell on that debate. But I don’t think we can dismiss someone by saying they will never improve. For every Larry Bird, there is an Adam Morrison….
Craig W. says
Nobody in the NBA is nonathletic. Now we need to define athleticism, because all athletes are not built the same – see Steve Nash vs Jason Kidd vs Allen Iverson.
Demarcus Russell is athletic, but he doesn’t jump as high or move side to side as fast as others. As a PG, he is certainly much more athletic than is Andre Miller. He also seems to have Andre’s ability to see the game, and is an outstanding passer to take advantage of those observations. He can make quick/accurate decisions and has a good shooting touch.
If he became as good as Chris Paul I think we would all be very happy. If he turns into a leader, but needed other talent around him to dominate, that would also justify taking him here. My point is that he doesn’t have to be a superstar to make him worth the pick. The key is where we go from here – and we do now have a direction (with Randle, Russell, Nance Jr, and Brown we are developing a size and length identity).
BigCitySid says
-Hearing that the NBA is giving very serious consideration to changing the playoff selection structure in 2015-2016 from the present way to the top 16 records. Won’t help our guys in the upcoming season…but beyond that 🙂
Renato Afonso says
karen,
That was actually a good question. The logical choice would be Okafor but they clearly saw something in Russell that sets him apart from the rest and because we didn’t see the workouts, they most likely know something we don’t. If MDA was still running this team, I would have probably gone berserk again. Since Scott has the opposite approach (and I’m not saying he is good at his job) and still picked the PG, then I’m not that certain that Okafor will have more impact than Russell. I still think he will, but I’m not even close to being sure about it…
On the original topic, I do think that it will be harder to fill the roster with this selection, at least this season. Unless we’re getting Cousins in a trade or signing Jordan or Gasol in free agency, we have a huge hole in the middle to fill.
(edited for trade speculation)
Any_one_mouse says
Fern – it looks like you continue to misinterpret the draft pick – may be my bad for not being more clear. I’m asking for our pick *back* from Philly, not thinking about sending them *another* pick.
CHearn says
In agreement with “tankyou:”
Of the Lakers slated to start Kobe, Jordan, DeAngelo, and Julius, where’s the defense? One behemoth (though aged) whose defensive years are in the rearview. Second-year player Clarkson whom the league will see coming this time around, his flaws will be exploited by the scouts if he does not register any improvement in those areas. Russell a rookie who’ll surely have growing pains offensively, and defensively since he’s a high draft pick. Veteran guards will not take one night off against him as they’ll preserve their legacy for as long as possible by disbanding any thoughts of Jordan supplanting them from their position as the best. And Randle another rookie whose defense is questionable. Referees will not allow him to be physical his first year so he’d better be able to read and react accurately. So who’s the lock down defender of the four? They may be offensively gifted on one side of the floor ala MDAs SSOL scheme but what about the other end of the floor? Neither DeAndre Jordan, Willie-Cauley Stein nor JaVelle McGee is capable of shoring up the defense for an entire team. NBA players will exploit this teams weaknesses, and one of the first or second-year players will be in foul trouble every night. No problem with Kobe because he won’t bother defending more than a few times a game. Indeed, this team is 2-3 years away from a playoff berth. Recall that the darling archetype Warriors took six years to get to the mountain. The Lakers are no longer on the road “off to see the Wizard.”
I enjoy the viewpoints of everyone on this board writers and posters alike. It’s odd to me that people with different points-of-view are discouraged from voicing their opinions. Is this not America, the land of free speech? If people are ‘lurking’ and not adding content but complaining about the posts, then what merit is there in that? Either read a post or scroll past the decision is yours because you have freedom of choice.
rr says
Renato,
Good points. But I think Byron Scott, when asked about the pick, probably captured the FO’s thinking. Scott said that Okafor can be a “good center” but Russell can be a “star.” Andy Kamenetzky, who covered Russell’s workout and met him, talked about Russell having “star power” and the KBros were on Team Russell. So, I think Buss and Kupchak decided that Russell has a chance to be an All-Star Face of the Franchise guy and fun to watch to boot. Combining that with the long list of FA bigs, they pulled the trigger.
But the metrics do suggest that Russell is a high variance pick. Putting that in colloquial terms, he could be James Harden, or he could be Frank Williams. Okafor, I think, could be a poor man’s Al Jefferson…or a rich man’s Al Jefferson. Mudiay could be John Wall, or he could be Tyreke Evans.
rr says
Keno,
Good point about the Nance Jr. pick. Don’t know the full story, but it is something to be aware of.
Aaron says
Fern,
We have different ideas of what athletisim is. Talent and athleticism are synonymous with me. Pau Gasol is one of the most athletic seven footers I’ve ever seen. Steve Nash is one of the most athletic PGs I’ve seen. Steph Curry is one of the most athletic PGs I’ve seen. And on and on. Larry Bird was Dirk. A stretch four with elite coordination but better vision.
Shaun says
Brook has already somewhat agreed to a 3 yr 60mil contract with brooklyn as well as thaddeus agreeing to a 4 yr 48 mil to stay so both guys aren’t going anywhere
In terms of Cs i really only see moroe or lopez available
greg acrually has somewhat of a similar game too okafor except with more agility … if upshaw turns into our leaper big i really see no other guy being the target plus he can run in a showtime offense
https://youtu.be/wbjLUTdgYWo
R says
Well it’s always possible to skip over commentators one doesn’t care for. Without a diversity of opinion it could be pretty blah. Without diverse perspectives group think ensues and who wants that?
Any_one_mouse says
Fern – it’s not Clarkson and a first round pick. It’s clarkson *for* a first round pick
Aaron says
R,
Agreed. If it wasn’t for “different” posters nobody would have written last year that the FO was intentionally tanking to keep their pick and rebuild. It’s good to have “different” ideas. Sometime “different” ideas bother people. They can be scary.
Aaron says
Fern,
I think what you call athletisim is just leaping ability and length it seems like. Athletic traits are coordination (skill), strength,
Speed, explosiveness, leaping ability and quickness. They are all equally important.
Keno says
Shawn Brook oped out based on NY report. Wants to leave NJ.
Shaun says
He opted out of his 17mil contract to get a raise and multiple years …. either way hes not worth 20mil per for the 15 games he might play …. he has too many yao lile problems with his feet amd is too slow will he a big liability for us
Vasheed says
All one can do is offer an argument and provide a body of evidence. As with most arguments I have ever had it is rare for people to admit defeat and bow before a well reasoned argument. Instead they will double down and look for every shred of evidence of a counter argument. When faced with group think, it is near impossible to change minds. I shrug my shoulders and carry on it as we are only discussing a team who plays a game.
A lot of things about discussing basketball involves perspective and opinion. There are few absolute facts. As such high draft picks turn out to be busts or people are amazed that a pick was discovered deep in the draft. Really we are only offering opinions about probability. Even professionals get it wrong or we would not have busts every year.
I enjoy reading this board. Some posters I agree with more than others but I value all opinions. It gives a look into other perspectives that I may not have considered on my own. Some of the posters here with strong opinions can be very colorful.
Aaron says
Russell might have the elite coordination that I just don’t see. He might become a lot more athletic as he has (for lack of a better word) a flabby body. Since it seems like he has a good work ethic and with all the trainers etc at his disposal now he might reshape his body and really change his athleticism. That’s obviously what the Lakers are think of they intend to keep this pick. After all he is a late bloomer. There is reason to think he has more blooming to go. The Lakers have the top guys in their perspective fields poking and prodding Russell. They would know if he has a higher athletic ceiling than what he has showed. He obviously has a feel for the game you can’t teach. I said I would re think my draft board by who he lakers picked. They have great talent evaluators. And they of course see more of the athlete from every perspective than I do. I can just go off of game film.
Darius Soriano says
Diversity or a difference of opinion is never an issue for me and, I don’t think, should be for anyone else.
Darius Soriano says
CATS,
People who I have spoken to tell me one reason Mudiay fell isn’t because he went to China, per se. He got hurt and only played in something like 12 games + the team’s two playoff games. There are concerns about his shooting, not just from range, but as a ~60% shooter from the FT line as a guard. I’ve heard and seen comparisons to Wall/Rose/Westbrook/etc in terms of athleticism and explosiveness, but scouts who have seen him up close say he’s a level below those guys (basically saying it’s not fair to compare anyone to those guys who, at their peak, are just superior athletes to anyone at PG).
So, again, the HS comments just don’t resonate much with me. He’s had a year+ since his HS senior year, played a truncated season due to injury and went through the same draft process as everyone else. He also went 7th in the draft which is pretty damn good. I don’t think anyone is sleeping on Mudiay. Heading into this process, I thought he was a damn good prospect and, if the Lakers had drafted 4th or 5th rather than 2nd and the board fell as it did on draft night, I would preferred him over a guy like WCS (who went 6th), Henzoja (5th), or Porzingis (4th). As an aside, the Kings (Vlade) said one of the reasons they didn’t select Mudiay is that he refused to workout for them after being asked multiple times. I have also heard he did not impress as much as other candidates at his 2nd workout with the Lakers.
This is partly what I mean by context. College recruiting is one piece, just not one that I think matters as much as how these guys play and then how they perform throughout the pre-draft process.
ian says
Yes! Please don’t be in a rush everybody. Sometimes the journey is just as interesting as the (championship) destination.
I remember the ‘Lakeshow’ teams of the early 90s with extreme fondness. Right before they become the Shaq/Kobe juggernaut, it was extremely enjoyable watching a core of Eddie Jones, Nick Van Excel, Cedric Ceballos, Vlade, etc.
Just enjoy the ride and have fun! Have some faith in the back office.
Aaron says
Mudiay doesn’t have the explosiveness or leaping ability like a Westbrook. His athletisim to me is his elite coordination, quickness and strength to go ally with elite size at the PG spot.
tankyou says
@Chearn, cool to have someone agree with me 🙂
I do see the team thus far from the players we have defensively regressing next season. Mind you I know we still have players to pick up still and perhaps a swing for the fences guy who can play defense also. But barring that, looks like Ed Davis is gone and he was the closest thing to a defensive player we had. This team thus far looks like a Mike D’Antoni all offense type team, and in the Western conference this means getting owned most of the time. I really hope that we get a 2 way player or two in Free agency, we must have a wing/center that can defend. Teams are going to be breaking some records on us next season as it stands–regardless how often Byron Scott calls out the team for being “soft”. Calling out their manhood doesn’t defense make. But of course Byron is a “defensive” coach, what a joke. Please oh please let this year be the last for Coach Scott, he can go enjoy his retirement elsewhere.
SlyBly says
Dana…Not sure where you heard the Lakers would be contending this coming season after being so bad for the last 2 years. I believe Jim Buss said 3 years. They are off to a really good start with Russell, Randle and the emergence of Clarkson to go along with nice pieces like Tarik Black, Jabari Brown, Ryan Kelly and Anthony Brown, all of whom are on cheap rookie contracts. They need to get one big name (Jordan, Aldridge, Love) or two solid young starters from this free agency (Monroe, R Lopez, Tobias Harris, Wes Matthews, Danny Green, DeMarre Carroll), and they will be in great shape. They could compete for a lower seed in this year’s playoffs. Then next year, when Kobe comes off the books, they will have the money and a great supporting cast to offer two max free agents (Durant, Love if he stays a Cav this year). This is a two year process at best from now, so Laker fans need to be patient. Most teams struggle to get to the top for a year or two, and the Lakers are there all the time. The NBA put rules in place, so the Lakers couldn’t do it anymore, so it has taken a few years to get back there. They will be fine.
Vasheed says
@Aaron,
They had on ESPN sports science that Russell’s reaction time is faster than John Wall’s. Few players have 0 down sides like LBJ but Russell does have a lot of things going for him.
macster says
RE"Thomas Rickard June 26, 2015 at 3:38 pm A “put together” team regardless of the experience of the players isn’t likely to have immediate success, it takes time to build chemistry, “team experience”, but first you need a foundation, something I see coming with the Lakers, that’s something to get excited about."
This is a great post.
Also, I prefer that they skip the FA and trades all together for a season or two. I don’t need playoffs, just real progress and a sound foundation for the future.
M~
Al says
We need a center and don’t want to see Hill there again. With Davis’ agents wanting $9/10 Mil (he’s good but not that good) I think we have to look outside the org.
Agree with those that don’t want to pay a market price for a depreciating asset (Gasol and Alridge). If you’re paying market prices its best to get an appreciating asset (Monroe or Jordan).
Robert says
Renato: Your views on the Russell pick are identical to mine. It would not surprise me If Russell turns out better, but Okafor was a better bet. Although unlike you I did not go into “shock” on draft night, as nothing shocks me anymore on this topic. While not in shock I did go ballistic when I heard the next pick.
Diversity of Opinion: Not sure what the issue is here. Rudeness and being mean to other posters should not be tolerated and I never do that. I also never imply that I “know” more than others. Quite the contrary. That is why rr is my GM, so he can sweat the details (without my meddling form the owner’s box of course). I am very critical of the FO, but they deserve it. Just like others think Kobe deserves it. Just like others think Byron deserves it.
Chearn: “If people are ‘lurking’ and not adding content but complaining about the posts, then what merit is there in that?” That about sums it up.
Darius: Thanks for a great site. However, we still should have picked Okafor, and anyone of 5 guys in lieu of Nance : )
Calvin says
@Tankyou – Let the free agency play out before coming to any conclusions. It’s still a long offseason, and a lot can still happen. I’m sure Mitch is aware that they need rim protection and defense. Maybe Mitch and Jim are preparing max offers to Aldridge, Gasol, then D’Andre. Let’s wait until October to see how free agency shakes out.
Calvin says
@Robert: Why don’t you like Nance? Did you have someone else in mind that Mitch should have drafted? If it’s about the tweet, I’m sure what he tweeted 3 years ago doesn’t matter anymore. Kobe’s a wise OG with a thick skin. He’s got bigger fish to fry than a tweet from a kid a long time ago.
rr says
Did you have someone else in mind that Mitch should have drafted?
—
If this draft blows up in the FO’s face, the focus will be on the guys who went off the board at 3 and 28: Okafor, of course, and RJ Hunter, whom Boston took at 28. A lot of people liked Hunter–he was in the teens on some boards. So, passing on a big and a shooter for a PG that some people doubt and for a hustle/glue guy whom most people had going in the 50s took some guts. Buss and Kupchak clearly trusted their own judgment, which is good–if they’re right.
As to the Tweet, it is not a huge deal, but it is not nothing, either. Ramona Shelburne has already said that she thinks Kobe will “not take it well” and Mitch has said that Nance will need to talk to Kobe about it. It wasn’t just simple smacktalk, and it is not manufactured–Nance typed those words himself.
But this draft–and in some ways the FO’s fate–will hinge on Russell. When you are where the Lakers are, you can’t afford a miss at #2.
Al says
Calvin – paying market price for Gasol or Aldridge makes no sense their age almost guarantees they will be depreciating assists. If you are going to pay market price then buy Monroe or Jordan – who because of their age have a better chance to appreciate or hold value over a four year deal.
Craig W. says
Nance shocked me because I hadn’t heard of him. Once I read up on him and looked at who the Lakers could have drafted instead of him, I didn’t feel so shocked. He wasn’t an obvious choice and perhaps we should have selected Brown there, but I really don’t know what was going on in the various draft rooms. If Mitch felt he was rising quickly on the board – and Brown was holding steady around 35-40 – perhaps that was a reason for selecting him first. What I have come to accept was that the Lakers were looking for upper classmen with their last two picks. IMO – Mitch didn’t want to go through all the hassle of 19 yr-old growth stupidity and the increased risk of being a bust. By the time a player is a senior you can get enough film on him to see if he is working on his trade or simply having fun.
As to why not Hunter? Perhaps they wanted someone at the 3, who could play 2 (Brown), rather than a straight 2. Nance is clearly a 3-4.
Aaron says
Vasheed,
Yea I saw that. Reaction time is good. Another thing I liked was he throws passes as hard as LBJ. But even after watching that I had Russell as the seventh best prospect out of the top seven prospects in the draft. Think about this… A save said before… How is Russell going to be able to fully utilize his passing instincts, vision, and reaction times if he can’t beat people off the dribble or be good enough at it to have the defense shade over to him? He needs to be that amazing of a shooter (like Curry) to have defenders crowd him. And then he needs to have that crazy Curry coordination to be able to shoot off the move in tight spaces effectively. If he can do those things no doubt he will be worthy of the second pick. I don’t see that kind of coordination in him to do those things. He will need to really improve other athletic traits to succeed at the NBA level. I hope I’m dead wrong. I was wrong about Curry. I didn’t think he was coordinated enough to shoot on the move the way he does and finish around the basket the way he does. So I’ve been wrong before. Coordination is the hardest athletic trait to project/judge when looking at prospects not playing in the NBA. I’ll have a much better handle on him once summer league starts.
But again… I still think we drafted him to trade him.
tankyou says
@Calvin, My concern is out of those you named only Gasol would be a difference maker defensively, but without another SF with strong defense its not going to be near enough. Aldridge is an offensive stud for sure and gets lots of rebounds, but he’s far from a rim protecting big.
I realize I have to be patient, but I’m just commenting on the guys that are on the team now, and the continuation of buidling offense without any real 2 way players of note.
I’m big on Ed Davis but 9-10mill is a bit too steep, for this team. IF we changed coaches and started playing a lot of pick n’ rolls, I would seriously consider keeping him for that much. Ed Davis played great D (beyond his over agression leading to too many fouls) and he finished at the rim like a stud. He is a seriously good PnR guy. So a team that use the PnR and also want to improve their Defense should snag him, especially as a PF. Same thing with Jeremy Lin, if he gets to run and gun a bit more and do a fair amount of PnR’s you will see him go off next season as well. I’m all for Jordan Hill and Boozer walking for sure, don’t understand why T. Black didn’t see the floor basically at all near the end of the season. I’m also unsure why so many folks dig Kelly, Kelly is a great 3rd stringer, a modest low minute 2nd stringer–and should have never started under any “exprimenting”. I suppose it helped the tank a bit though. Sacre starting, LOL.
Darius Soriano says
Aarron,
Per Matt Moore, in Curry’s last season at Davidson he had a 42.1% eFG on jumpers off the dribble. In Russell’s lone season at OSU he had a 51.6% eFG on jumpers off the dribble. This is only one stat, but Russell is also two inches taller than Curry and has a wingspan six inches longer. These physical attributes will help him, surely.
Renato Afonso says
Sorry about the trade speculation. I thought this was still the original post that allowed it. My bad. Anyway, in the edited part I say that Clarkson could be shipped in a trade to any center to fill the gap in the middle. I don’t think he’ll be great off the ball…
Aaron says
Darius,
Indeed. And if Russell is even close to Curry everyone will be happy. I like the fact he is a late bloomer and looks like he can improve physically. That always a downside to drafting grown men like Mudiay. They aren’t going to mature much physically. With guys like Russell and Okafor and even Porzingis… You see they can get in a lot better shape in one way or many ways. Maybe I am not a risk taker or a gambler in these spots. I wouldn’t be shocked if Russell transforms his body and athletisim in the next two years (ala Bynum) and and then becomes an MVP candidate. The Lakers have a tremendous mental and physical evaluation program. As soon as they picked him I knew my chances of Benin wrong on him went up dramatically. And I will agree Russell has the higher ceiling. Mudiay went through puberty at age seven. maybe I think it’s a bad gamble. But the Lakers know the ins and outs of him. So maybe it’s a good gamble. Going back to Curry… He is the exact example. He has physically matured a great deal since college. And that turned out pretty well for the Warriors. But he was also drafted seventh… Like a PG this year. Man that was a good ending.
Warren Wee Lim says
What I find amazing is that when talking about other prospects, they say “he’s 19, he will still grow and mature.” … but when talking about other prospects, the tone is like, despite being 19, cannot grow anymore. Lets just call it bias.
Scott says
Sign DeAndre Jordan to a max contract this year and we are playing in post-season. Next year is Kobe’s last year then his contract are off the books then we pick up Kevin Durant. At that point you have – DJ at 5, JR at 4, KD at 3, JC at 2, DR at 1. If Randle, Clarkson, Russell are as good as hoped then that will give you some championships.
Ed says
Lakers have have good success with Clarkson,and Byron has experience with young,highly rated PG`s,so that`s in DR`s favor. Another plus is if Nash works with him. As his body matures and he gets in NBA shape,he might never have elite athleticism,but good enough considering the other things he excels at.. He can also probably get his FF% into the mid 80`s and 3pt 40%+. I still expect Clarkson to play many minutes at PG ,and maybe sign someone like Chandler to a short term contract rather Aldridge or Monroe longer term.
rr says
“The kid figured it out himself,” Bryant said. “He’s a kid, man. He actually sent me a great message [Friday], which is really funny. I looked at it [the message], and it was like, ‘This is when you know it’s about time to hang these things up, when your teammate writes you, Hi, Mr. Bryant.’
“I was like, ‘What the f—?’ But it was really nice and apologetic about what had happened. I said, ‘Dude, listen. We’ve all said things and done things that we regret and wish we could take back. It’s water under the bridge, man. Welcome to the team.’ He writes back, ‘Thank you, sir.'”
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/13161683/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-says-larry-nance-jr-tweet-water-bridge
Ed says
Their dads played against each other when it was NoBoysAllowed,so a stupid twit or tweet is no big deal between them. Of course the rookies will still have to undergo initiation like those who came before them.
Mid-Wilshire says
Well, I must admit that — despite being a secret Okafor-supporter — the selection of D’Angelo Russell has kind of grown on me. I like the choice of Russell, not just in isolation (considering his own individual talents: his shooting, his passing, his rebounding, his apparent leadership instincts). But I like the potential dynamics that this could create with Jordan Clarkson. I say this because I think that Clarkson and Russell could be the Laker back court of the future.
The most interesting aspect of using the two in tandem is that, in some ways, they are despite certain differences very similar and, as a result, somewhat interchangeable. Think of it. They’re both 6-5. They both can play the point (Russell perhaps more so than Clarkson). They can both play off ball (Clarkson possibly more than Russell). They can both shoot from outside (Russell’s primary strength) and they can both get to the basket (Clarkson’s strong suit).
As a result, we may have stumbled on to a combination of players that can simultaneously play with and off each other. They are simultaneously both interchangeable and complementary. This is what I mean. I can envision Russell running the offense for 5 plays, then Clarkson for 4 plays. Then Russell runs the offense again. Then Clarkson. Then Russell. Then Clarkson. And so forth.
The (potential) advantage of this? It keeps the defense off balance. Who’s initiating the offense? Who’s working off screens? Who’s playing off ball, running around for back door lay ups? Who’s the primary passer this time? And so forth.
I think their interchangeability could work to their advantage in a big way. It’s like playing a tennis player who’s ambidextrous (which I have done). Every time he switches hands, it throws you off…just a bit. It also makes you panic a little bit.
Having Clarkson and Russell exchange roles from time to time might be disarming to the opposition. Has it been done before? It certainly has. I think of two prominent instances. The old NY Knicks had Earl Monroe and Walt Frazier in the same back court. It didn’t matter who initiated the offense. They could both do it. And you had to be on your toes against them.
In 1972 the Lakers had a similar scheme with Jerry West (6-3) playing alongside Gail Goodrich (6-1). They played superbly together. One wasn’t the point guard and the other the shooting guard. They were simply guards. The result? An NBA championship with a 69-13 record (and a still unmatched 33-game winning streak).
Maybe the Lakers could be starting a new trend. Maybe this could be the way of the future — big, talented guards who can score and initiate the offense with equal facility. Thoughts?
Nick says
Darius / Anyone else that can answer,
Why are we not considering Greg Monroe more seriously? I understand he has had trouble defensively at times, but this guy has a great body and moves very fluidly. Plus being able to play the 4 or 5 effectively is pretty invaluable in my opinion. Not to mention, the guy is instant offense on the block/ works well in the pick and roll game.
Also, if we sign Tobias Harris what is the likelyhood we could have the cap space to sign a quality big (DeAndre, Monroe, Love, LA)?
If it came down to it, would you guys rather take Tobias or a big, and why?
fern says
I don’t know I really doubt Deandre Jordan would sign with us, call me crazy I don’t think he is worth a max, I read that he and CP has issues but those issues stem for the fact that he makes Dwight look like Steve Nash in the ft line and apparently he don’t have any interest on improving on that, I know he is a defensive monster but that liability at the line is too much at least for me. About Gasol I think the Grizzlies will do whatever it takes to keep him since he is a major major part of their success, if he leaves they are going back to the dark ages.I don’t know I would bring Ed Davis back at 7 mill more or less and put him in the starting lineup. We save some money and have a rim protector and we would have enough money to go after a wing. I don’t know, it makes more sense to me than going and shooting our load on Kevin Love or Greg Monroe. I believe Rusell,Clarkson,Kobe,Randle and Davis is a good young lineup except Kobe of course. Just my two cents. I just don’t think Love and Monroe are the answer and I really doubt that we are getting Jordan or Gasol, im kinda hopeful about Aldrige, we will see how all this turns out starting next week.
Aaron says
Wilshire,
Great point. Especially if Clarkson can put on some strength so he really could physically guard SGs. They would complement each other well in many ways.
grumpy says
I’m a little bit concerned about how Russell and Clarkson will fit together. Clarkson was a nice surprise last year, but he was the beneficiary of being on a very bad team that allowed him to have the ball in his hands all the time.
With Kobe and now Russell in the mix, he is going to need to play off the ball a lot more and hopefully improve his set shot and three point shooting. Hopefully we’ll see some chemistry develop between Russell and Clarkson. Summer League can’t get here soon enough!
tankyou says
@Nick, my only real issue with Monroe is his defense, but its a HUGE issue in my opinion. First off we need a center, not a PF and we need someone who has a defensive presence. This team is thus far being built on pure offense with the list of good defenders currently at Zero. Who is going to play defense on the squad, our yet unamed SF who will have to defend the wing, the best SF in the league and somehow also deter shots at the rim as well? Randle may end up being a pretty good single coverage defender but nothing about him suggets rim protector. The Lakers may seriously not even have an Ed Davis caliber rim protector next year. Jordan Hill?
Even for the long haul you need some 2 way players to do anything, plus having too many guys that need the ball alot also causes chemistry problems and issues. Randle needs touches, Clarkson, Russell, Kobe, and a hypothetical Monroe who wants more touches as well? Maybe you can turn some of these guys into bench players, like Clarkson as a 6th man type. Russell with Kobe, who is going to dominate the ball next year? Russell should be the point guard next year almost definitely, Clarkson is a combo guard at best—guy should really be a SG if he wasn’t so scrawny. Also, who knows what offensive system comes into play in the next couple years, I still don’t see Byron Scott coaching through his entire contract–or if so, we be rebuilding for another 3 years+
AusPhil says
Really looking forward to seeing the Summer League team. As others are saying, the chemistry of the new backcourt will be critical.
Vasheed says
@Mid-Wilshire,
This was a point I made repeatedly while arguing for Russell. Russell and Clarkson offer a versatile back court whose strengths will allow them to play well together as well.
Renato Afonso says
Mid, that’s a nice thought but we still need Wilt, right?
Craig W. says
I too don’t think we should pursue Monroe and overpay him. He is good around the basket and he is somewhat young – that’s about it. No extended shooting skill, limited lateral movement, no shot blocking history – and he has been in the league 4 years to develop some of this.
His name came up in trades a couple of years ago on this site. At the time he seemed a one-dimensional player. Since then there is nothing to indicate he has expanded his game. Perhaps it is being in Detroit, but a player has to take some responsibility on his shoulders, and Monroe doesn’t seem to have done anything to better himself.
If the bigs are limited to defense or offense, I say their defense better be good or their offense better be fairly complete. For our team I think we need defense before offense at the center position, so I would prioritize that.
Hale says
Bad Boy Pistons had a dynamic guard duo, 2 HOF guards who could penetrate or bust your eye from deep. Those teams didn’t have savant scorers at the C but defenders. Low post scoring came from the SFs. You use the tools you have instead of banging the round peg into the square hole if you’re a smart coach.
Barring trades, D Russell & J Clarkson will team up from 1/3 to 1/2 the game. They’re not going to want to change the starting line up for every match up so Kobe needs to stay at the two and have realistic minutes of a basketball geezer. I don’t know if the Lakers have extended Nash an offer but if he could act as an off court advisor/assistant coach to those kids, that would be stellar for their guards growth individually. Randle has been described as a mini-LeBron in high school (Chris Y, maybe?), so if he is looking to pass on occasion from the 3 & 4, that would be two penetrators (JR, JC) collapsing the defense for 2 shooters -line up dependent- from the 1 or 2 (D’A R, Kobe). Outside of a defensive C in free agency, Upshaw would have the best possible interior defense but he has to make the team and hopefully he’s gotten his head right.
Waiting for Summer League
Robert says
Calvin: Not ignoring you but my posts keep disappearing into the void. So quickly with reference to Nance – He was rated in the 60’s by many, he played for a 2nd tier school who currently has no NBA players, his stats are average considering that, and then the tweet (which KB is handling well).
Lakafan says
Marc gasol has no interest in signing with Lakers bc of how his brother was treated last couple of years. My list of free agents lakers should pursue:
1) DAJ
2) Tyson chandler
3) asik
4) koufos
I would pass on Monroe, and Love since they’re pretty bad on D and Aldridge bc of his age.
Todd says
Craig W. – I disagree on Monroe. It seems that the FO wants to at least try Randle as a Three. So we need a frontline Center or Big Forward. Monroe can do either. As the post at the top of this thread outlines the FO would have considerable flexibility for adding an elite Three (should Randle prove to be a Four) or an elite Four (should Randle prove to be a capable Wing).
The other thought is about his mobility and passing abilities, which fit into a more flowing offense — he’s not a black hole in the post. The icing on the cake is his age. Posts above have used an investment analogy, which I agree with. If we are being honest making the playoffs next year is a reach ( possible but not likely) and seriously competing is about three years away. It makes no sense to sign Aldridge or Gasol, who are each 30. We’d be buying the downside of their careers. That’s a purchase you make when you’re on the cusp of a championship not when step one is getting back to .500.
A four year deal takes you through Monroe’s age 28 season. Yes you’d have to pay market price but you’d be getting a 18 / 10 player who is just entering his peak years.
24hRx. says
CAT – You keep repeatedly repeating repetative-like that Kentucky passed over Russell for Booker, but neglect to mention Kentucky already had their starting PG, and Booker plays a different position than Russell called Shooting guard.
And more importantly, that Russell wanted to be the man, and that meant starting and playing big minutes in a poorly coached disfunctional offense – and not playing limited minutes, possibly out of position, in Kentucky’s platoon system.
Russell got what he wanted at Ohio and developed himself enough over the past year into being a concensus top 3 pick.
After 1 college season, every PRO team had Russell ahead Booker on their draft boards, and Booker still went in the lottery at 13.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, Oh what a difference a year makes.
(Before I started talking myself into Oakafor at 2, I saw his ceiling as Al Jefferson. While Jefferson is very good, he is not a Championship level guy in the Pros.) Go Lakers.
Palabra says
Mid-Wilshire.
Bingo.
Looking forward to seeing these dynamics, which would not be there with Okafor in the middle (who is very good, but not Wilt or Shaq).
I could even see the Lakers going small with Russell, Jordan, and Mr. Bryant at the 1-2-3.
Chris J says
With all this talk about the Lakers’ need for a center offering rim protection, I would be curious as to whether the agent for Andrew Bynum has made inquiries to the front office about an invite to camp.
If the only course of action left open by summer’s end falls to the “Let’s add a once-talented head case” route, I would prefer the Lakers look to see what Indiana wants for Hibbard before letting Bynum back into poison the young guys in the locker room.
Ideally, there’s another path… The Lakers will be hard-pressed to compete next year even with a promising young core, so whatever moves are still to come, my hope is they’re made with the long-term in mind — not mortgaging assets to compete for an eighth seed in 2016.
Craig W. says
Todd,
Ok, now let’s discuss. I am open to changing my mind, but have thought Monroe was a somewhat inefficient player. He gets his points in close, but takes so many shots to do so that other team members are not involved. This is fine when the other team members aren’t very good, but we are trying to develop a complete team.
Since other teams can pack the paint on him, this will limit the drives of Randle and Clarkson.
Since his lateral movement and defensive instincts are poor, we will need a big down low to cover for his mistakes – limiting our ability to run and spread the floor.
I just see too many downsides and no evidence of progress on his part.
Give me some specific details why you think he would fit. I am reading your posts and thinking about what you say.
Anonymous says
24hRx, sorry to disprove what you are saying but Russell was recruited as a SG, he is being drafted by LA in hope he can play point. Shannon Scott was actually the starting point guard for Ohio State, Russell played off ball and took over point control when necessary….it was especially helpful as Scott cannot shoot.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/news/_/id/124603/dangelo-russell
Both were recruiting as SGs.
Todd says
Craig: Obviously, nothing we say here impacts what the FO will do so in that sense we are making arguments in a vacuum. For me Monroe offers a nice blend of what you want foundational player to have. Through his career he’s averaging 15 points and 10 rebounds with 2.5 assists. He shoots 50% from the floor and over 70% from the line. He shot 75% from the line last year. He has a high of 3.5 assists per game a few years back.
The key to me is that he’s been productive in a shoot first pg environment in Detroit (Knight/Jennings/Jackson) as well a with a franchise in transition. The Lakers have a pass first pg now with Russell and have the potential of offering a secure organization. I haven’t heard of Greg being a jerk on the floor or in the locker room. While he’s not the defensive stopper Jordan is I think he’s under rated.
Is he perfect, no when you’re other options are 30 year olds or resigning Hill or Davis ($10 mil per year) then market price for Monroe is a better value.
I’ve teased you in the past about being Jim Buss so if you are I think signing Greg Monroe is a good idea.
Todd says
Craig – I have a response stuck in moderation.
rr says
While all the attention has been on LaMarcus Aldridge, DeAndre Jordan and Kevin Love, Greg Monroe of the Detroit Pistons is set to become a free agent as well. After taking the qualifying offer last summer to become an unrestricted free agent, Lakers will be among the five teams to meet with Monroe according to Darrell Williams of The Advocate:
Five teams have shown serious interest — the Boston Celtics, New York Knicks, Milwaukee Bucks, Los Angeles Lakers and Portland Trail Blazers. Monroe said he’ll meet with those teams this week.
http://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-news-greg-monroe-to-meet-with-los-angeles-in-free-agency/2015/06/28/
Mansa says
I’m all for the guys we’re going after and planning on offering Max deals to (except for Love who I think is the third best player on a championship team at best), but I would much rather the Lakers go the rout of trying to get two players with this money. I would be happier getting Chandler and say someone like Tobias Harris instead of just adding Love, Aldridge, Monroe,or Jordan. It sure would be nice to grab Jordan and have enough to make a run at like Deng or something. I agree with this post that the Lakers can;t be fixed in one season, but I do think we can make moves to improve significantly this summer if they are smart.
buster jones says
Ty Chandler might make a good defensive center target. With everyone (including the Mavs) trying to get DeAndre Jordan for the max, Chandler may be feeling neglected by the Mavs and perhaps the Lakers could swoop in with a Jordan Hill sized contract offer (say $30 million over 3 years).
Chandler would give us a very good defensive center who isn’t a hack-a-Jordan liability at the end of games, from the LA area, and leave us with a good $10 million under the cap to perhaps grab a good 3 and D wing.
His pick and roll game is pretty good, he’s a known quantity and shoots an excellent percentage from the field. His game isn’t predicated on extreme athleticism and is a great team defender. He is flying under the radar as a 7 footer, which never happens in the NBA.
He is ripe for the picking, if we move decisively we can get a pretty good value.
Aaron says
Any player above 24ish isn’t a target for the Lakers unless they are a top five player in the world (Durant/westbrook). The Lakers are trying to win championships two years from now with a window lasting around five to eight seasons. Russell 19 years old. Randle 20 years old. Clarkson 23 years old. Their major free agent target is Anthony Davis (22 years old). Because Monroe is so young he is a candidate. But because he isn’t very good we shouldn’t sign him for more than ten million a season. So he is out.
Mansa,
If you think Love is a third best player on a normal championship team (with out lebron) he is worth the max. He is not and does not.
DieTryin says
LeBron opted out of his deal, as widely expected. What was surprising is his comment that he wants to wait and see what management will do.
Translation: make the roster moves I have authorized and I will re-sign. Did I miss the announcement about LeBron being appointed GM?
Before this comment it seemed like a simple and frankly understandable financial play. Get more than his current contract pays for 1 year. Then do a full 5 yr max deal at the new cap level.
The fact that Dan Gilbert may now have to go deep into luxury tax land to satisfy King James is pure karmic payback. The fact that a CBA that was designed to punish big market teams (can you say Lakers?) could now become a poison pill for Gilbert, seems more than a little fitting. Off topic, know, but couldn’t help feeling a little better knowing that some divine “basketball reasons” retribution could be coming down the pike. Cue Samuel L Jackson Pulp Fiction monologue…
mud says
Chandler really might be a good short term fix at the center position. the team might be surprisingly good with a veteran like him on it.
Nick says
rr, I was just about to post that… I think Monroe is a great fit for the following reasons:
-Very fluid and loves to run in transition – (Everything is in place for us to be a running team)
-Great operating out of the high post AND with his back to the basket
– I think this creates a very interesting high/low play opportunity between him &Julius
-Great passer out of the low post
-Willing to bang inside, but also has the ability to step out and hit some mid-range shots
-At 6’11, 260lbs this guy has all of the physical tools to be a solid low post defender at either PF or C.
-Athletic enough to be dynamic in the pick and roll
The only real knock I have against him is that he has been exposed as a perimeter defender. But this team is already versatile enough where we could slide Monroe to the 5 and let Julius guard quicker 4s. Even in this proposed lineup where Julius is at the 4 and Monroe is at the 5, we maintain our ability to run, and maintain our length inside. Not to mention this guy is extremely high energy, and at 24 years old? This guy is dream signing for now and the future.
He is the best option out there, especially when comparing to other potential big men…
My knock on Lamarcus Aldridge is that he has evolved his game (as he has gotten older) into a perimeter / fade away shooting type player. He doesn’t love contact, and is a little slower than I would like. And if we plugged him at the 5, I just don’t see him as a dynamic defensive presence. Right now, no question he is a better player than Monroe, but I just don’t think LA is a great fit for what we are trying to build into right now.
I wouldn’t mind signing DeAndre Jordan. You know you’re getting a strictly put-back and dunk guy on offense though, and he really can’t play any 4 at all. As for defense, he is obviously a weak-side monster with his shot blocking ability, but would rate him similarly to Monroe as a low-block primary defender. Great rebounder. Free throwing shooting, huge issue in my book.
I just think Monroe’s diverse skillset is invaluable to the young Lakers that still have a lot of moving parts. My FA big board right now:
1. Greg Monroe
2. Tobias Harris
3. DeAndre Jordan
4. Lamarcus Aldridge
5. Kevin Love
Chibi says
My dream get is Draymond Green. Excellent defender. Can finish games at center. High character. High IQ. High skill level. We will need Magic to give his fellow Spartan a great pitch.
Kevin Love is my second choice.
I’m not too crazy about anybody else. Jared Dudley? Alexis Ajinca.
Ed says
I`ve read that Monroe is linked with the Knicks. All the buzz about Lakers-Aldridge could be a smoke screen or real interest from both parties. I`ve favored Chandler short term which gives you space for another FA SF. Looking forward to Summer League,but I wonder how much the Top 2 picks will play if they`re not signed because of FA and the cap.
14:1 says
I have been following this board since Kurt first started it. This board has brought me all kinds of joy and has allowed me to further my love for the Lakers and basketball. I never posted much except for short brief periods (like right now and maybe a few years ago under a different handle) but mostly I am a reader. As much as I appreciate diversity of opinions, I really appreciate you, Darius for speaking your mind about the level contributions to the blog. There is much knowledge to be gain here, but there’s also a lot of BS, stroking of egos, arrogance, and blind allegiance to certain opinions mostly in defense of narrow closed minded views in some of the posts that I find to be total turnoffs. Overall I think it’s still much better most if not all of the comments section of other sports blog. It is a great space for us fans to participate and dialog. With that though, man, some of you guys kill me. That is all. Thanks Darius for putting up with us.
Shaun says
Aaron … no way we get davis … his next contract with new orleans will be a 7 year max with an average 28mil per
The extra years and raises will be too much for him to leave – it would be like putting 50mil on the table … not happening
We all need to remember that the shaq signing resulted in rule changes for that to never happen again …happened in houston with dwight because he saw this cap rising when he could recoup his lost money plus texas and florida get unfair tax advantages in FA that the league should address for smoothening to ensure a level playing field cash wise
karen says
Its possible russell was picked with the #2 because they knew what sacramento wanted and russell will now be used as trade combo for cousins
Aaron says
Shaun,
There is no way Davis signs with the Pelicans. That’s not happening. He might not sign with the lakers though. But if (big if) Randle and Russell are what we want them to be and if Clarkson can be a good back up PG and we don’t sign non star players leaving the cap open to all of Anthony Davis’ superstar buddy’s… I would say there is a 95 percent chance the lakers sign Davis. Now if we keep our top three pick next year… Those odds go up to 100 percent. A superstar like Davis wasn’t going to stay in New Orleans but what completely eliminated that chance all together was their asinine strategy of going over the cap on average veteran role players instead of young rising talent that would grow with Davis and could keep him with the team by the time Davis could leave in two years.
Aaron says
…basically the Pelicans should have been tanking like the Thunder to add pieces around Davis like OKC did with Durant. Instead it was the Lakers who have been tanking to get pieces around Davis. Think about if New Orleans didn’t go all out to win meaningless games with overpriced average veteran talent? They could have Randle and Russell with a good chance to get another pick next year. Then Davis would have something to think about. But alas dumb franchises do dumb things and it will cost them the best player in the world two years from now.
Shaun says
Todd -craig
So i had posted the FA scouting report from draft express for greg monroe earlier in this thread
A few points from it
– he ranked 4th in ppg in transition at the center position – so if we want to run he fits that style
– durable – has only missed like 4 games so far which is good for a team that had so many last year
– willing and capable passer … which to me will be key on the team
we all know we are going to suck on defense next year the key will be to compete … which i think all of our young guys will … and then run down peoples throats and be a offensive force … which i think can happen since with monroe we can pass and attack the basket from every single position and with more teams moving towards small ball … there will be less need of a hulk in the middle but the reality is upshaw is probably our best bet at that type of player
I also agree from am earlier point that we will be able to blend our offense to hide what we want to do since the attack could come from anywhere … it would be very hard to double this lineup
Yeah his later D might suck but we can work on a zone instead or since we will for the most part have length on the perimeter we can switch a lot like GS this past series with the option of going super small with randle at C when we have to
We could go down the oden or bynum route …if either were healthy it would be amazing and personally i would love to have bynum back .. if healthy he would be the best center in the league
tankyou says
(edited for trade speculation)
My dream free agency this year remains Jimmy Butler coming here after being fatigued with the bulls/Derek Rose–playing 2nd fiddle, plus trade for Cousins where we at least retain Randle. If we had Butler/Randle/Cousins–I really wouldn’t care much who we had at the 1/2, plus Butler can play point forward no problem. Make it happen universe!
Craig W. says
Todd & Nick,
Thanks, my big questions are 1) his putrid % from midrange make him an ‘in the paint’ player almost exclusively and 2) his poor lateral movement make him ‘easy to go around’ for quicker players with handles.
Tell me why I am mistaken with my two thoughts.
Casual Fan says
Why are people targeting Lamarcus Aldrige, Greg Monroe, and Kevin Love for the Lakers? We already have an undersized 4 in Randle, next to no defense (starting 1-4 of Russel, Clarkson, Bryant, Randle). Shouldn’t we aim for a defensive 7-footer like Marc Gasol (i know he doesn’t want to come), DeAndre Jordan, or someone along those lines?
Mansa says
Aaron,
So were you saying that K.Love worth the max? Because if so, we agree 100%. I think Love is a good player, but overrated. I don’t think he can be the second best player on your team and therefore he isn’t worth a max deal.
Casual Fan:
I agree with you, although the league is different, I don’t want to va Max deal to these PFs like Aldridge and Love. I wouldn’t be upset if the Lakers nabbed Aldridge, but he does not want to play center. If we’re going for a max player this year, I would rather go for Jordan. If not, then I think Chandler is a better choice. That we we can get another player in there at the wing position. Plus chandler is a vet. I know all the talk is that we’re moving past Kobe, I get it. But we can field a team that competes next year and give this man whose given us 20 years a proper send off without sacrificing our future.
Todd says
Craig- I think I said that Monroe was not perfect. But the Lakers need a big and if you can’t find a 100% fit then sometimes a 90% fit will need to do.
– Monroe is the right age to grow with the team. I’ve discussed how 30 year old FAs skill set will be eroding when the Lakers begin to gel 3 years from now.
– I see him as a Center so his lack of lateral quicks won’t be as much of an issue as when he had to guard small ball Fours.
– he really the perfect small ball center. Big enough to vanguard with traditional Fives but he’s as mobile a a small ball Five.
– I take his offensive numbers with a grain of salt. I mentioned he played all his time in Detroit with ‘me first’ point guards. I’ve seen more than a few games while in Detroit on business. The Piston offense was not smooth partly because the PG could not be counted on to distribute the ball. Plus Drummond is the definition of a traditional center. Monroe was not positioned properly by Piston coaches because of the lack of mobility of Drummond and the shoot first mentality of Josh Smith and their PGs.
– I really see Monroe as a good kid who was smart enough to see that the Piston organization is a mess and to flourish he would need to get out.
My last thought is this. I see Randle being able to guard Threes. I see Monroe realizing his potential as a Five. I also see Durant as continuing to have foot issues and AD not signing an extension in New Orleans. In other words two years from now the Lakers will be set at the Five and the Three with a need at the Four.
Chibi says
Draft express put up strengths/weaknesses videos for Larry “thank you, sir” Nance.
Warren Wee Lim says
Are we serious about this Anthony Davis bandwagon? It couldn’t be so far up the topic right now.
Nick says
Craig,
Piggybacking on what Todd said as well, and in response to your last post.
1.) I’m not sure exactly what he shot from “mid-range.” In 2014 TJX quoted him shooting 26.4% on all jumpers, so I guess I will have to take their word for it. However, his FG % last season was 49.6% and Lamarcus Aldridge shot 46.6% – so I don’t see any glaring inefficiencies. Also I have watched him play and he has enough of an elbow jumper to keep people honest. Really as far as jump-shooting goes that is all I think I want from my Center. Also, shot 75% from the FT line last year.
2.) About his lateral quickness, I agree that it is pretty sub-par when covering perimeter 4s. However thats where coaching comes into play. In those instances slide Monroe to the 5 and let Randle cover the 4.
More importantly, Monroe provides this team the flexibility to play big and small (I believe this flexibility is crucial, especially when trying to win consecutive playoff series in the West).
Big lineup: C: Upshaw or other mid-level center PF: Monroe SF: Randle
Small lineup: C: Monroe PF: Randle SF: Who knows at this point.
That small lineup sounds especially deadly since Randle has expanded his range, and has the dribbling ability to take it the length of the floor.
I agree Monroe isn’t the perfect fit, who is, but he presents a flexible skill-set and still has a ton of room to grow
Shaun says
Casual Fan
Gasol will stay in memphis
Doc has already said he’s giving deandre the max
LA maybe but i think he goes to san antonio
And presents the same problems as monroe on defense plus he hates playing at the 5 + more of an iso player …. i think we will be running and lots of cutting screening and passing
Love will resign in cleveland
BLopez and TYoung are resigning in brooklyn
Would chandler leave to us or Milwaukee over dallas. …. maybe … but he has been injured often these past few years and is older … he left to NY for money … maybe hed leave again but wed be overpaying and he would have a downward trajectory -32 years old
So whats left for frontcourt players?
Monroe – discussed
R lopez – could be worth it
Asik – cant catch or pass – hole on offense
Koufous – hes a backup
Bynum … haha
Brandon wright – could be interesting if we go cheap and spend elsewhere
Javale mcgee – maybe worth the risk
Josh smith – maybe but houston has inside track + plays 3/4 not 4/5
Paul milsap – duplicates randle
David west – too old
Jordan hill – maybe as a 3rd big
Ed davis – 3rd big off the bench
Andrea bargniani – min contract but woth scare and black taling roster positions our backup spots are taken
Thomas robinson …. a possible ed davis replacement on a min deal … if ed gets paid it shows undervalued bigs that they can come here and get noticed
That’s it
No other guys worth talking about
Out of all of our options monroe makes the most sense in terms of realistic targets … i think butler and not kd or AD are the targets next year … if we get monroe and keep the sf position open while shoring up our bench then we have a big story for an FA … now still growing but if we want a big in 2016 – we push monroe to the 4 or 5 or bench
If we want a wing .. clarkson to the bench … we keep our options open with him going forward in 2016
Plus now everyone gets to see russel and randle in action if they are great then the next FA could be that missing piece
Hoping this happens
Aaron says
Mansa,
No. Re read. I’m saying if someone is your third best player on a championship team they are worth the max. But love isn’t the hits best player on a championship team kind of player. I’ve already said love to me in these communist finantial conditions is a ten million a year player living forward for the best five years.
Todd says
Sorry for all the spelling ang grammatical issues – typing quickly with an iPad spell check practically converts English into another language.
Aaron says
I think it’s important to remember we really don’t know who the Lakers (if anybody) are looking at in FA and for what dollars. The Lakers are used to scare every team in the NBA into over paying for a free agent.
Mansa says
Aaron: I guess in today’s NBA your third best player is worth the Max money wise. I’ve just thinking of teams the past and I don’t remember teams having 3 max players. In my opinion, your third best player is usually worth 10 – 12 million., not a 20 million dollar MAX. But overall, I think we agree that Love is not the guy for the Lakers.
As for the folks talking about Monroe, I don’t know why the media buzz is that is going to NY for sure. Monroe is 3rd on my list of free agents behind Deandre and Chandler.
Vasheed says
Upshaw might possibly solve the defensive side of the Lakers roster. He drops opponents 2pt fg% by 10 percent points. He is a defensive monster in the paint. I just wouldn’t gamble the Lakers entire future on him based on his health and off the court issues.
My first choice would be to sign D. Jordan as he too is a great rim protector. But I could also see figuring on Upshaw in the starting line up and getting a back up plan like Koufos. I also really like Aldridge but, I would then want to trade away Young’s salary possibly with Kelly’s too and sign a guy like Koufos or Asik.
smokedaddy says
Darius-
This is a terrific site. What makes it terrific are A) your posts and insights, and B) the commenters. Now, yes, a couple of the commenters here, namely CAT and Aaron and a few others can be exasperating. But truthfully, they do come up with some very good points sometimes that make one think, to go with, yes, quite a bit of BS. To me, their BS is best dealt with primarily by other commenters, which I think it is.
Bottom line, I understand your exasperation, but if we limit the site to those who are on the same page as us, then this is a mistake. I think you may be having second thoughts on your tweets aimed at CAT. Much as it pains me to say this, I think you were in the wrong.
Craig W. says
Todd, Nick, Shaun,
Thank you all. You answered all my concerns, plus a couple of things I hadn’t thought about. I guess the two most key items were that we need to be able to play up tempo – like Denver-style – and Monroe would work well here, and second were were going to suck on defense for a while no matter what we do (youth and chemistry) so he might as well be learning along with everyone else.
One other point that supports you. We shouldn’t try to develop like the 76ers. Therefore, we do need some veteran presence – more than 2 – on the team to help the rookies and near rookies learn faster. This means we will probably have to overpay someone and deal with their contract later. Monroe’s age minimizes this situation. However, this is also why I won’t be very disgruntled if we sign LA.
P.S. The last point is why we need to resign Ellington, completing our back-court.
Craig W. says
PP.SS.
I consider Nick Young to be locker room entertainment and a release valve, not a veteran who is key to young player’s development.
George says
If Nick Young is only for locker room brevity, then I wish we weren’t paying him $5 mil a year.
Oldtimer says
We should have been conversing at this detail when lakers lost to Mavs. That was the time to organize when we have somebody to trade. Well, over confidence became the norm that Lakers can turn the switch anytime they want. Jimbo tried the formula of Nash/Howard/Gasol and Kobe resulting to bad chemistry plus bad coaching and injuries.
Today, we have a young core why is there such hurry and doubts for moves that are still in process? What’s the difference of Russell and Mudiay or Okafor? They are young rookies, nobody can guarantee their future. Relax, trust the judgement of Mitch/Byron. Focus on the next agenda – F/A’s. In my case, I want. Love, Adridge and Butler. On the contrary, Lakers have only 24 M to spare, maybe my dream could only buy one and two minor stars F/A. As they say, you aim your dream to distant shooting star, realistically you only reach the moon. Sometimes, like today our space ship explode as soon it gets off the earth. So luck becomes an important factor. As long as our F/O is trying their best, we should be happy with the effort. However, if we can get into that state of incompetency like last season when they get stucked with Melo, they lost a Center Kaman to Portland while other FA’s were signing with other teams. You sense that they were just interested to save the first rd draft pick from Suns, analysis paralysis of a tank season. I hope they don’t lie again to their passionate fans.
At the end of the day we can’t be choosy if F/A’s don’t join? If we end up with Kuopus and Upshaw as our Centers, you never know they are the players that will turn the tide, let’s try again next season but don’t lose sight of competing and putting up a show for the fans. Someday Lakers will be rewarded if they keep on trying to be better than cheating the system of tanking to achieve its ends.
Chibi says
Can we have a trade speculation thread dedicated to Nick Young?
J C says
George
I think you mean levity
🙂
Chris J says
FWIW (and considering my disdain for ESPN’s “sources,” probably not much), the latest report on the World Wide Leader suggests DeAndre Jordan’s plans involve returning to the Clippers or signing with Dallas, according to someone named Tim MacMahon.
The crawl also said he plans to “meet with” the Lakers and Knicks. Regarding those two, I agree with Aaron — agents love to cite Lakers’ (and Knicks’) interest as a means to drive up other team’s offers; I would personally be surprised if the Lakers offered him max money, and that’s seemingly on the table down the hallway. So maybe MacMahon is on to something… Mavs and Clips make the most sense.