Remember how the Lakers weren’t doing anything in free agency? Yesterday morning seems like so long ago. After pursuing, and ultimately (seemingly) agreeing to acquire Roy Hibbert from the Pacers, the Lakers have made another move by adding to their backcourt:
Free agent Lou Williams has agreed to a 3-year, $21 million deal with Lakers, league sources tell Yahoo
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) July 5, 2015
Okay, there’s sort of a lot to say about this so bear with me. I’m going to use bullet points because, well, bloggers love bullet points…
- Lou Williams won the Sixth Man of the Year award last year. He’s a proven scorer who has questionable shot selection, but is actually fairly efficient within the context of taking some bad shots. He posted a 56.4% True Shooting percentage last year and is definitely someone who can get hot and string together possessions where points are going up on the board.
- He will likely be the team’s 3rd guard, playing next to Russell and Clarkson whenever one of them is on the bench. Lou can work on or off the ball and should allow for both Russell and Clarkson to lead possessions as the PG, but also move away from the action either off-screens or as a secondary handler when the ball gets swung to them in spot up situations.
- The contract is fair — Rodney Stuckey just got this exact same contract when re-upping with Pacers — but raises the immediate question about how they plan to pay for him within the current limitations of their cap situation. Roy Hibbert’s trade kicker ($2.3 million on top of his $15.5 million base salary) left the Lakers with around $4.8 million in cap space. Williams’ 1st year salary will probably be a shade over $6 million. The difference in those numbers is enough where another move must be coming.
- If I had to guess, that other move would be trading Nick Young. Whether Young ends up in the Hibbert deal or is traded on his own, he’s the only player I see who makes enough money to serve as ballast to clearly free up enough space to sign Williams.
- If the guard rotation is going to be Russell, Clarkson, and Williams, I’m guessing Kobe will play almost exclusively at small forward this season.
- Williams is not a good defensive player. Byron Scott will need to try to hide him on whichever perimeter player is the weakest amongst the PG, SG, or even the SF.
- You’ve heard of 2-for-1’s at the end of quarters where team’s try to get a shot with enough time left on the clock to get two possessions at the end of a quarter, right? Well, get ready for lot’s of “Lou-for-one’s” — he will try to do this at the end of every quarter when he is in the game. Seriously. Just get ready for it.
- The cynic in me must point out that signing Williams has at least a slight scent of trying to pacify that sect of fans who like players because they “know their name”. As noted above, Williams just won a major award. He’s not a household name by any means, but he’s also not a guy like, say, Cory Joseph (backup point guard for the Spurs) who fans wouldn’t know if he walked up to them and said “Hi, I’m Cory Joseph, backup point guard for the San Antonio Spurs”.
- The non-cynic in me says that Williams can play, can be a useful scoring guard off the bench on a good team (the Raptors were that this year, the Hawks were as well when Willams was with them), and, as the team ultimately transitions away from Kobe (or if he’s unavailable due to injury), they will need someone who can pour in some points on any given night. The team thought they had that in Young (and, if he’s not traded, maybe they still will), but players like that have value in this league. Remember the saying, good offense beats good defense. This is what he brings.
I’m sure there is more to say, but that’s all I got for now. If scoring this acquisition, I’m more for it than against it. Lou isn’t a perfect player, but he’s a useful one. He’s sort of pricey, but think of it this way: when the cap is $90 million on 2016, William’s deal will be 7.7% of the salary cap. I won’t get into too much detail about the numbers right now, but his signing would no way impact the Lakers’ ability to chase two max-level free agents next summer should only a couple of minor moves be made.
So, when taking it all in, sure, I’ll take Lou Williams on the Lakers. If nothing else, he will make the team more fun to watch on offense. I’m okay with that.
So we don’t have that many roster spots lefts …. my count is 12/13 right now
Pg – russel / lou williams
Sg – clarkson / jbrown
Sf – kobe / young /ABrown
Pf- randle / nance / black
C – hibbert / sacre / Upshaw*
If we sign upshaw this leaves us with 2 roster spots left with my guess that we only sign 14 guys to leave a spot open for trades
Where should we sign our last guy?
I would say it would probably be an sf as our sgs could play pg if they needed to and if kobe amd young are our sfs they can also play sg with our only need being a larger sf
Derrick williams could have been good here
Ideally if we could find an sf that can also play small at the 4 it would be great
Gonna take a look at who is left
I could actually see lou starting with thw team wanting to keep clarkson and jabari brown as a good bench unit and keep more vets in the starting lineup
No. I liked the Hibbert deal. As I said I think he can help Upshaw and help us lose games. I just would have thought we could have got a pick to go with him. And yes the Williams deal seems like we got him to trade him along with Nick Young at the deadline. But maybe we got him to also keep Russell on the bench (something I like rookies to be for their long term development)
I said I trust the Lakers in the draft because they have more at their disposal than just game film (me) and they have a great track record. And after watching the sport science on Russell I’m much happier. I mean ten percent better reaction time than anyone ever recorded including race car drivers? Impressive. Also he throws passes as hard as LBJ. Anyone that can do anything with the power of LBJ is okay in my book.
Eric Pincus said that if the cap rises to $69m as reported last week, then there’s enough space.
Math might be able to work if Sacre + Kelly are dumped in the Indy deal.
That would free up ~$6.5M. With 4.5% raises, gets to a hair below $21M. With 7.5% raises gets to 21M.
So those two might be the ones going (hopefully not, and it’s Swaggy instead)
When teams take on player contracts via trades their cap space is increased to allow for the incoming contract of the traded player. Luxury tax
Barf, Lou Williams, guy who shot 40% against Eastern conference 2nd stringers! 7 mill for that guy, makes Swaggy’s contract look like a great deal–given they both play no defense. At least Swaggy used to shoot well from 3pt land, rather than average.
6’1 waif of a dude, who gives us no size and lousy shooting, and some fun to watch circus shots. Career 41%/34% guy. Hmmm. Bloody hell have to hide our enitre guard core, and at this point our small forwards as well. Randle & Hibbert better be able to defend everyone on the court. Clarkson is now our defensive stopper from the wing, that’s not a good thing.
So with $50Mish in cap room the last two summers, we signed/acquired:
Shows the power of the LA market. Star magnet.
Can’t wait to see what we do with $80M next summer.
I forgot kelly …. we are at 14 players on the team if upshaw gets signed …. that might be it they might consider kelly to be the larger sf smallballish pf
If we end up dumping kelly id say our main targets for an sf could be
– dorrell wright – 6’9 .. good 3pt shooter ..decent defender
– gerald green – 6’8 … shooter, athletic …avg 10ppg last year, 15ppg the year before
– michael beasley -6’10 ….wtv i think hes good
An upshaw signing might closeout our offseason
Looks like Young will be going somewhere…. I guess Kobe is our SF….
Putting Beasley on the team with Upshaw is just asking for trouble. Not a good idea.
What if we trade Nick Young, Ryan Kelly and Sacre for a solid 3?
Decent pickup. I think he’s a guy that will hold some value on the trade market, which is a step up. Prior to Randle arriving our cupboard of trade assets was bare. I expect the Lakers to trade Williams by the 2nd year of his contract to try to extract value from this signing.
There is some talk of us doing a s&t with lin to dallas … not sure if this cam be a 3 way trade given ellis and hibbert amd how tjay would effect space …. i would tjink that if lin gets 7mil+ from dallas that we could trade lin to dallas get a tpe and them absorb williams’s deal into that tpe …. might give us another 4.7 mil in space for 1 more signing
This deal doesnt make sense unless the idea is Lakers thinking of trading Swaggy P. They both do similiar things on the court (volume scorers, not good defenders) lakers don’t have a SF on the roster. wouldve liked to see Alan Anderson (3&D guy) or Dorrell Wright (good from 3/Floor Spacer)
Big time free agents don’t go to sorry teams, Jeff. LAKERS had talent on roster when shaq came. There was already eddie jones, van exel, campbell, rider etc. Lamarcus was gonna pass up the spurs who just resigned a 24 year old finals mvp to play with injury prone kobe and rooks? Monroe chose Milwaukee cuz they won 41 games without him last season. He could be the piece that has them in the conference finals in the east. He’d maybe move the lakers to 35 games in the west. Pretty easy decisions. Basically you need talent to get talent, and that’s always been true.
Trading Swaggy would be a mistake! The common denominator with all the good teams last yr was continuity of players. Kobe really poured and mentored Nick last yr and Nick stepped up to that challenge. You don’t go breaking a bond like that over a new toy.
I like the move tho. We need player who are not afraid and and can perform when the pressure is on. As long as Byron Scott can structure a great team ball structure that players understand their role, we can be really good this year.
Young getting included in the Hibbert deal is key. If we have to trade him separately it might not be good and could involve sending a pick (if we send a pick to the Pacers we will be down 3 future picks and one more for NY would make four. That is deficit spending and you do that when you are close to a title, not when you are rebuilding.
I’d have much rather spent this cash on Williams than Davis. And Hibbert is absolutely worth a one year look. Between that and drafting Russell I’m very happy with this off season.
You’re preaching to the choir, Corey. I obviously wasn’t being serious.
I think the front office should make free agent/trade decisions right based on two primary questions:
(1) Can this play play a significant role on this team contending when our young nucleus is developed?
(2) Will this player attract players responsive to question (1)?
Ie, we need to signing good young players and/or players that will attract good young players.
While Hibbert and Williams have their benefits, they really don’t satisfy either category. They’re just short term roster “filler.” That means all this massive cap space we had the last two summers has netted us ZERO meaningful long term assets. Think about that. If you were told at the start of last summer that the team would spend $50M in free agent contracts the next two years and fail to land a single interesting long term roster piece you’d consider that a total catastrophe. And that’s what it is.
I might just be talking myself into s*** now but wouldn’t you rather take a look at how Hibbert does with a fresh start as opposed to pay Greg Monroe 80 million in our situation?
The Lakers are in serious trouble!!! The Buss kids are trust fund babies that are in way over their heads, Mitch desperately needs a change in scenery & Scott is a D+ coach working with a bare cupboard & a beat up old Kobe who still believes that he is the best player in world (laughable), Kobe just needs to go away…..The NBA game has changed & the Lakers are stuck in the past & unless they adjust the entire Laker organization they are going to suck for a long time. There is only 1 team worse in the West than the Lakers & that is the Nuggets, sad times in Laker land…. The days of we are the Lakers, we have mountains of cash, come play for us are over…. Young stars don’t want to rebuild, they want to win now & when you have a roster of nobody’s & an old Kobe who nobody wants to play with this is what we get stuck with as fans…. I’m a realistic Laker fan not a dillusional one… Under 30 wins again this year, doesn’t look good people….
The thing that concerns me about Hibbert is that Bird is no idiot and he was desperate to cast Hibbert off the team. Says something to me about his character.
Jimmy p says
Wow hibbert and Williams we’re going to the finals!!!
What were you watching. Nick stunk 2nd half and had major issues with Scott. More interested in being mr. Hollywood then a serious player. Nick was a side attraction when Kobe went down and I for one say SWAG on out of here.
Robert Fisher says
Silver reported the cap may go up another 2 mil to 69.1. with that, my calculations have the available cap space at 8.2 mil less Lou’s first year salary and the 2.3 mil Hibbert trade kicker if the Lakers can’t get Indiana to eat it.
With 10 signed or agreed to sign or trade, plus the two non-guarantees of Tarik Black & Jabari Brown, they are at 12 players. Add one roster cap hold of 525,093 to get to the 13 player min. I included the potential 20% increase for the 3 drafted rookies plus Upshaw. If Upshaw and Anthony Brown make the team, then that is 14 on the roster.
Like i said in the other thread, williams contract is like a drop in a bucket of water after the cap increases next summer, can help, there is no such thing as a perfect player so im ok with it i do think Young days as aLaker are numbered, About this Upshaw dude i keep hearing about, i hear he can play but if your “off field issues” makes you not drop in the Draft but drop off the Draft i be wary to sign this knucklehead. Thats the last thing the Lakers need, a potential cancer. Are people that desperate? As far as I concerned i dont give a crap about this guy. Unless he cleans up his act i prefer he stay away from the Lakers. I expect stones thrown my way lol
Fern, Lakers already have a immature knucklehead in Young. One more knucklehead would not hurt haha.
I’m smh on the Lou Williams signing, Hibbert is better than Sacre but at times throughout his career you can see disinterest in his game on the court, maybe a change in scenery is what Hibbert needs in his career right now so I won’t knock it just yet…I do like the Russell pick & no one really knows how good either Russell & Randle will be this early on. Clarkson caught a lot of teams by surprise last year, that won’t be the case this year.
“Trading Swaggy would be a mistake!”
Trading Nick Young is never a mistake.
I’ve got no problem with Lou Williams per se, but man, the perimeter D on this team remains scary to think about and Williams will not help in that regard.
Young and one or more others figure to go with maybe 3 or 4 teams involved as a series of players move. Cap creativity at its best. Whether the Lakers will be improved after it`s all over,yet to be determined.
Robert Fisher says
Hey Fern! Catch this boulder!
Seriously, over the last 3 months Robert Upshaw got the help he never got before. He is only signed to summer league for now to see how he does. Risking 525,093 rookie minimum to see if he can keep it together with his upside is completely worth it. He just might be the steal of he draft.
Robert Fisher: Sorry – if you already answered this, but do we “need” to dump NY according to your calcs or not? Thanks
Woj also now reporting Lakers and Mavs in talks for Jeremy Lin sign and trade. Interesting to see what Lakers get back in return here.
Pro: 1. Williams could be used as a 3rd guard with Clarkson and Russell to take pressure off them. 2. Williams’s deal is very movable.
Con: 1. Clarkson and Russell need the ball, burn and reps. Kobe, Young and Williams crowd that out. 2. Williams’s age and skillset is far better suited to a good team than to a bad one.
Need to see what this is connected to.
@rr, Cons: Williams is only 6’1 and can’t even guard PG’s well, and can’t guard bigger guards almost at all. We are paying him 7mil, to be a volume shooting bench player, that plays no D. Guarantee we could have gotten Ellington for less, and Wayne plays D, has size, and is only a year older.
I see no value in this p/up at all–given who we have on the roster. BTW, he is not a swaggy replacement, some here keep mentioning that. Swaggy is 6’7 and can play against SF’s and big 2 guards and when engaged plays better defense that sieve Williams. We need more help in SG/SF area than we do PG, Clarkson can backup russell as well.
Have you guys watched WIlliams play, he pulls off some sick shots, but whoever he is covering better suck offensively.
Just picked up Brandon Bass per Marc Spears Yahoo. I like this as I think he would be a good mentor for Julius.
The Lakers just signed Brandon Bass.
Marc J. Spears ?@SpearsNBAYahoo 6m6 minutes ago
Celtics free agent forward Brandon Bass to sign with the Lakers, a source told Yahoo Sports
welp, this just happened
With Russell or Clarkson in the back court Lou can guard the PG which is a plus. Just a SF would have made a lot more sense…
I think the little moves this week may be very interesting. The Lakers need to shed some salary and yet their moves would make little sense if they cannot on balance net some 2nd round picks.
Please tell me this means Nick Young is leaving. I don’t care how good he is, his act wears thin after a while.
Flurry of action for the FO over the last 2 days. I want Byron Scott fired if he doesn’t start Randle..
Young has negative trade value with his contract. Ellington is a 10th-11th man. I need to see what else the FO does before evaluating the Williams deal. Based on where we are now, I would not have done it.
Now Bass. Woj is saying that NY is likely gone. Well – this puts the intentional tank discussion fully to bed.
Why oh why am I reading that we’re signing Brandon Bass? Can anyone put this in a context that makes sense?
another signing from Boston BB. Nick gotta be gone now
BB is Brandon Bass.
I’m a bit surprised by the fans proclamations of how bad the Lakers will be next year. They may not have gotten the big free agent but, they have made a number of improvements.
By most posters measures I’ve read everyone is fairly happy with our rookies.
– We have our PF of the future in Randle whom many believe “will take the league by storm”. I’m a little dubious to this but it is a resounding theme on the boards.
– We have moaned for the last decade about our PG situation. We still have the gem we picked up in the 2nd round last year of Clarkson and we have added a very talented PG this year in Russell.
– Last year the only true Center we had was Sacre. We started PF’s at center in lieu of not having any other centers than Sacre. THis year we have a true rim protector in Hibbert and a possible game changer assuming we add him to the team in Upshaw.
– Last year at SF we had Wes Johnson. I don’t think we have to aim very high to say we have improvement here. A. Brown looks to be a solid pick up as a prototypical 3 & D wing. Also Kobe is likely going to play significant time at SF this year which imo is a good thing.
Yet the overall consensus I read is that we will be like 3 or 5 games better than last year. Our F.O. tried to sell the city instead of focusing on the team they were building as their recruiting message. I am pretty much stunned. I’m not expecting miracles. I’m not sure this team gets into the play offs this year. But things are much better this year than last year. Really some perspective is in order.
Brandon Bass is a solid bench big. I don’t know if everything breaks right I could see a 41-41 season. If we have a team with real players next years fa’s might think about signing.
Re: Randle starting
I think it’s fine if he comes off the bench until January/early Feb. Let him get a feel as opposed to tossing him to the wolves. D’angelo probably should start by December at the latest though
I want Randle to get as much burn as possible. I’m totally okay with BB signing, but I don’t want Randle to sit the pine in lieu of a veteran.
Hey doesn’t he have 2 girlfriends?
I think it looks like we got at least 2 definite starters for the future (Russell and Randle) with the possibility of Clarkson and Upshaw getting in there too. But I’d say we got ourselves the making of a real good bench in Clarkson, Upshaw, Black and Williams. This doesn’t even take into account Nance and Brown, who may surprise us. That’s at least four real good bench players. Out of this group of guys I expect to have at least 6 players we can be happy really happy with. Now that don’t sound too bad.
Let’s just hope Russell and Randle turn into real good players.
Now add in Bass. Bam! We got ourselves a legitimate bench mob.
Just realized the best part of the Bass deal….no more Ryan Kelly. See ya in the euroleague bro!
Apparently Mitch did not take the weekend off.
Still looking for a SF who can shoot and defend,unless they think Brown or Nance can over achieve. The competition should be good in Oct before a rotation is established. Yea,I guess Mitch didn`t settle for just barbi and fireworks.
People complaining already about the new signings jeeeesuuus this are better adquisitions than last summer young veterans on deals that are not cap killers for next summer so you tankers get that crap out of here, this is what we should had done from the beggining this summer, BTW Vasheed, i totally with you, is not often lol, could it be that the FO finally got the memo?and about starting Russell and Randle later on or whatever, screw that!!! Russell is a #2 pick if your that high on the Draft you should be good enough to start, if Randle looks good in Summer League and the consensus says he will start him too, they are not freaking projects, they are touted as NBA ready. if everything breaks right and that injury bug leave us alone for a change we should have a better sell next summer with what is being built, im starting to believe that not all is lost. We will see.
Patrick Lanigan says
Lot of negativity on this board. The Lakers just signed last year’s 6th man of the year. This is exactly the kind of supporting cast that top free agents look for and that we have lacked. This is a great pickup.
The free agent pickups are solid. At some point a couple of them may be trade bait. Nonetheless, a veteran-rookie balance is necessary. Williams does shoot too much. Although he might be marginally better than Young. A player who holds onto the rock too long is poisonous. Now we have three of those: Kobe, Williams, Young. Put Mr Bryant at the three spot. Ship out Young, Kelly and Sacre; let the young ones grow with serviceable veterans to keep them in line. Let the better times roll.
What troubles me the most was the reports that the Laker Organization is not up to date on the latest trends in the NBA the scouting dept is weak and the fact that upper Mgmt is living in early 2000’s – There is no One in The Laker Organization that anyone respects besides Jeannie but she’s not running the Squad – where is Jerry West where is Pat Riley where is Magic? They must obtain and in a hurry someone that demands and commands Respect but also does the Work so that we are no longer a Clippers type Organization – short of selling the franchise to Magic maybe demoting Jim Buss and replacing him with Magic – ASAP? I don’t know but one thing for sure as long as Jim Buss is running basketball operations we will suck donkey ….. I give him props on Chris Paul but it didn’t happen and it’s been 3 years he must go