Heading into this season there were certain potentially problematic realities about the construction of the Lakers’ roster.
First was the team having a mix of young and veteran players which all would need playing time to get the most out of them. Second was there being a strong skill-set overlap between multiple players who all like the ball in their hands as shot creators. And, third, the Lakers have a glut of power forwards on their roster.
Four (potentially) viable players at any single position on the roster is too many, and that is how many PF’s the Lakers currently have in Julius Randle, Brandon Bass, Larry Nance, Jr., and Ryan Kelly. Head coach Byron Scott has tried to manage this issue in different ways to start the year, mostly using a two-pronged approach.
The first part of this approach has been to simply leave a player out of the rotation. Larry Nance was that player to start the year. Nance is a rookie and was dealing with a sore knee when the season started so he was an obvious candidate. Nance’s emergence as a rotation player has shifted Ryan Kelly to the odd-man-out in recent games (not to mention Kelly was not playing particularly well on either end of the floor). This change has been for the best, but as someone who likes Kelly’s game, seeing him permanently buried isn’t a positive.
The second part of Byron’s plan has been to play Brandon Bass at Center rather than PF. Dating back to the preseason, Bass has seen the majority of his minutes next to another PF, to mostly mixed (this is generous) results.
Using these players this way has created a ripple effect. One, of course, is that the Lakers’ back up Centers are not getting any real minutes. Tarik Black has played 79 minutes all season and has not appeared in 4 of the team’s 11 games. Black has his flaws (he is undersized, for one), but was 2nd Team All-Rookie last season while posting a PER north of 15. Robert Sacre has played 4 minutes all year.
Another repercussion is that Bass is clearly playing out of position. There are nights where Bass looks perfectly capable of working against other team’s 5’s and then there are nights where he’s had to spar with DeMarcus Cousins or other players who have great size advantages over him.
None of this is ideal. And, really, a change will have to be made eventually simply to balance the roster and find more workable lineup combinations which put all the players in better positions to succeed. I simply do not think the team can live with Bass at C for the entire year, nor do I think this is what is best for Bass as a player.
This might seem like I am advocating the Lakers trade Bass and, I guess, I am. Though the sample has been small, Nance has shown he has enough of a rounded skill set, the physical tools, and the basketball IQ to earn minutes. Julius Randle is the starter and should be playing between 28-32 minutes a night. Ryan Kelly has not played well during the year, but he is still (relatively) young and has a skill set offensively the other players don’t quite have.
This leaves Bass as a PF being told to play out of position while both he and the team suffer for it. Again, this is not ideal. The best solution would be swapping Bass for A). a back up center the coaches trust to play over Tarik Black or B). swapping Bass for an empty roster spot to open up some flexibility should another trade opportunity arise or a free agent comes on the market which piques the Lakers’ interest.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Bass. In recent games he’s played better. He has a nice skill set offensively, plays hard, and is a smart defender who knows where he should be and when. In reality, the Lakers need more players like Bass, not less of them. However, slotting him a C limits the things he does well and magnifies the things he doesn’t. And while lineups with him at C can stay afloat for stretches, they are not lasting solutions.
I haven’t run through the trade machine to find a viable deal (nor will I), but this seems like the best solution for all involved. December 15th is the first day players who signed as free agents in the off-season can be traded. I am not Mitch Kupchak or Jim Buss, but I would hope they are exploring all their options for when that date comes so, if a deal materializes which balances out the roster better they can pounce.
DY says
I agree about the glut of PFs and the inefficacy of playing Bass at center, which is a disservice to all parties.
I do think a more contending team would have a need for a player like Bass. However, at a measly 3m or so, another larger contract (such as Lou Will or Swaggy) would need to be added, or as you said, try to find a trade exception if possible.
I feel Bass/Lou are the kind of players you add to round out a playoff contending team; they are a poor fit on a rebuild team like ours.
Dwight says
The only players of value are the kids and we’re not moving forward by dealing them. The vets are under performing, so in and of themselves they are not likely to be sought after by other teams.
The FO is fooling themselves if they think Williams or Bass would net value in return. Contrary to management’s fantasy, Hibbert’s expiring is not enough to get Boogie out of Sactown.
Moving the vets may work in the context of a larger deal, however, you normally need sweetners, like a draft pick, to grease those wheels. We don’t have a first round pick to deal until 2019.
Clay Bertrand says
Dwight,the Lakers are totally sugar free when it comes to trades. No sweetners here man. I’ve been saying forever that this whole “TRADE LOU AND NICK” campaign, while well intended, is MUCH easier said than done. No one is trading anything of value for either guy.
We have Kobe, Nick Young, and Metta at the 3 spot so we are DEFINITELY SET for the future right????!?!?!?!
ANNNNNND Anthony Brown, unable to crack the formidable Laker line-up so far this season for more than a couple meaningless minutes, has been assigned to the LA D-Fenders where he can get some run and some ACTUAL COACHING.
I love the way this team is “DEVELOPING” its young players……..smh
Can we sign Troy Murphy again so we can send Randle to the D-League too??!?!?!?!?
Is BOOZER still available?? Can we get him so we can send Nance Jr. to the D-Fenders too?????!???!
Robert Fisher says
I may be wrong, but I think I saw Bass at PF along with Black at C at times, maybe some in preseason, and it seemed to work. With Randle starting, it does leave Nance and Kelly out, but I still don’t understand why Nance can’t play at SF.
Anonymous says
Why not play Nance at SF? He’s 6’8(same height as LeBron), has quick feet, and can nail a corner three. Against smaller 3s just play metta or Brown.
Roger says
I think it all starts wit the COACH that just stands around wit his arms folded.I think with the talent we have now we can do somethings I was worried about defense but they showed they can defend.The coach we have now doesn’t know his player’s they all look lost in his system.I think he should be fired no offense. For example everybody wants to knock Ryan kelly right now but he was the most consistent laker in the preseason to the point when the season started he ran pf wit the second unit mite what 1 or 2 bad games and now he don’t get no clock remember this the same coach that made him play SF last year when he knew he is a pf and he 6’11 the team complained about his practice how they tire them out we need to look at the big picture good player but bad coach I think we should fire him and go get Tom Tibs the bulls old coach he is active wit his players I see his system working better and my boy Ryan Kelly can show what he can do I watch Tibs work wit Mirotic who reminds me of Ryan kelly and he has a good spot wit the bulls still right now so Think about this 1
BigCitySid says
– How bad are our Lakers? They are currently tied for the worst start in Laker history thru 11 games.
-Two records the Lakers are in danger of breaking this year:
– “Lakers all time worst start” and “Lakers all time worst record”.
This franchise has only won less than 30 games in a season FOUR times in their 68 year history…so far. Unfortunately it’s happened TWICE in the last two years…with a real possibility of three years straight. Some feel this is okay, as long as they are entertained…I’m not one of them.
This is the bottom line thru 11 games of this season and their worst four previous seasons:
2015-2016 thru 11 games: 2-9 (?? win season/ 82 game season, ???)
2014-2015 thru 11 games: 2-9 (21 win/ 82 game season, .256)
2013-2014 thru 11 games: 4-7 (27 win/ 82 game season, .329)
1959-1960 thru 11 games: 3-8 (25 wins/ 75 game season, .333)
1957-1958 thru 11 games: 2-9 (19 wins/ 73 game season, .264)
BigCitySid says
-@ Roger, not sure how this mess all starts with the coach. He didn’t select and hire four power forwards.
Keith says
OK, so it looks like this year is lost. The coach/FO can hide behind the ‘it’s difficult to say good bye to the face of the franchise’ excuse. Of course the counter argument is, ‘why did you rely so heavily on a 37 year old’ but Jim can get away with that one because Jeanie was all in on Kobe as well.
So the question is how do we get better for next year?
1) The Draft: As bad as we are I can’t see us finishing with one of the two/three worst records this season. So our odds of keeping our pick are long. We’ll need luck and we might have cashed that chip in last draft. So Ben Simmons will not be a Laker.
2) Sign Two Elite Free Agents: Free Agency is also likely out of the equation. There are only two elite free agents this summer KD and Horford. Durant will have much better options and Horford’s is this year’s Aldridge — his best days are behind him.
3) Trades. While these are always an option, as was mentioned above — our best trade chips are the kids and how do we get better if we move them. Of course we’ll have cap space so we can trade for next year’s version of Hibbert, a veteran on the outs with his current team but attractive to the Lakers because he was once good and he has an expiring contract.
4) Organic growth is our best and only hope. Just like Obi Wan did for Princess Leah, Randle, Clarkson and Russell will have to save the day. To be ready to shoulder more of the load next year they’ll need to get as many minutes as possible this season. May the force be with them.
Jacob says
@Roger
Re: Players complaining about how hard practice is, Thibs is definitely NOT an upgrade in that aspect.
Robert says
DY: “they are a poor fit on a rebuild team like ours.” So could someone re-explain to me why we signed them.
Kev: “Even Kobe approves of him, and that’s not an easy endorsement to gain.” You are speaking of Kobe’s endorsement of Byron correct?
Roger: “I think it all starts with the COACH” Actually this mess started way before Byron got here.
BCS: You should keep posting these stats. You need a name though – like my Kobe Alert. I would suggest “Waiting for the Buss”
Clay: “Troy Murphy” Every now and then someone mentions that guy and it reminds me of when we had the “6th” best team in the league. I never thought I would long for those days.
Mid-Wilshire says
The glut at PF is even more pronounced when you realize that Tarik Black would, by his own admission, prefer to play the 4.
Byron’s affection for Bass actually goes a long ways back. In Bass’s first 2 seasons in New Orleans — 2005/06 and 2006/07 — his coach was…Byron Scott. So, Scott had him as a rookie and a 2nd-year player. As a result, I think there’s an element of loyalty that has played a role in Scott’s insistence of playing Bass somewhere.
This explains Byron’s including Bass in the rotation. But it doesn’t excuse it.
I actually think that Bass, a journeyman PF whose best year (with Boston, 11.1 ppg, 5.7 rebs per game) was only two seasons ago, is trade-able. The value we would get would not be high. Probably a 2nd-round pick. But it would be something
Meanwhile, Tarick Black (whom I like a lot and is only 24 years old and still putting his game together) languishes on the bench. I really think that Black has been the odd man out in all of this. He’s actually a solid defender. He can guard the Alex Len’s of the world. (Bass cannot.) And, if he were to play, say, 18 minutes per game, he would probably give us 6.5 ppg and 6 rebs per game with some solid D. Furthermore, he might even be a part of the young “core” moving forward (as a role player off the bench).
But the only way this will happen is if Bass is moved. Byron’s ties to him simply run too deep.
Anonymous says
It’s hard to evaluate rookies/players when there is no coaching and no effective game plan on offense or defense that allows players to be successful. Russell has been successful when he’s thrown out Scott’s anemic offense (slow transition, pass to Iso player, go stand in corner and watch) and ran his own pnr. Also players defensive numbers would be better if the coach bother to implement a defensive scheme that doesn’t require all 5 players to pack the paint and/or double everyone in the paint when they have the ball and still allow layup after layups. Also the team is horrible at rebounding. This is on the coach. If you pride yourself on defense then you should understand that any great defensive play should end in getting the rebound. You are just wasting time playing defense if you don’t bother to get the rebound. The coach should understand this and drill his team on boxing out and rebounding. Seems to me that the entire team’s lack of boxing out, rebounding and over defensive plays are part of the coaching problem. Reminds me of the Booser quote where someone asked him about the difference between TT and BS. He said that TT made them drill it (defensive schemes) everyday so they understood what they had to do whereas BS just talks about defense. Mister “man up” is all talk, just a lot of “bs”.
This coach does not put players in a situation to succeed. Makes me wonder if he’s tanking on purpose he’s so bad. You don’t play a 2nd unit that is one of the worse in the league defensively most of the 4th quarter when you are within striking distance and you want to win. You don’t play BASS or Kelly when you have a lead or trying to take a lead and get stops. If you want defense you don’t experiment for multiple games where you take two of the worse front court players and let them run it until the lead is gone and you are down 15 before you sub in your better defensive players (Hibbert, Nance, and MWP). His rotations and minutes allocation are terrible.
Also he seems to not understand that having a offensive game plan where you move the ball and having a PG in to run it instead of having two ball dominant iso SG run isolation plays doesn’t really help to get the offense going when we are in need of points.
I also agree with those who feel that JC only got a glance to “develop” because of injuries. BS would have not played him much if he had other healthy guard options. JC also improved his game by working with Nash. He improved in spite of BS, not because of BS.
His explanations and post game comments are contradictory to what he does on court and are head scratching. Also belittling your young players doesn’t help to motivate them. BS is no leader and definitely not someone who can coach. He needs to go immediately if we are to salvage this team (I don’t care about wins, just development and good instruction) and develop the kids right.
KevTheBold says
Robert, no, I’m speaking of D’Angelo.
Clay Bertrand says
Robert, 6th best team in the league!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those were the days man…..those were the days…. : /
Joe Houston says
How in the world did the Lakers think that DAR was better than Mudiay? Watching Denver v New Orleans and I can tell you there is no way(barring injuries) DAR will ever be as good as Much at.
JD says
@ Joe Houston, that very well might be the case and Mudiay may end up being a lot better than Russell. However, I’m not ready to concede that after 10 games. Remember in 2009, Tyreke Evans was picked 4th and was only the 4th player in league history to average 20, 5, and 5 in his rookie season and wound up winning rookie of the year. Meanwhile, James Harden struggled and sat and struggled and sat. 2009 ended up being Evans best year to date and Harden has since flourished. Now this may not end up happening with D’Angelo and Mudiay. I would, however, like to point out the differences. Mudiay, for one, has been given the keys to the car in Denver, he is also with a coach in Mike Malone who runs a free-flowing 4 out and 1 in offense, and lastly although he was injured for much of the year he did play professionally last year. I do think, though, that if Mudiay went to college he would’ve been a higher pick than Russell, but that’s revisionist history. My point is, I don’t know what to make of Russell yet (I see his talent), but that conundrum is to be blamed on the front office and coaching for putting together a roster –as Darius stated–of mismatching parts and failing to embrace a full on rebuild. Furthermore, its easy to see that Byron isn’t exactly the most visionary coach out there. All this said, D’Angelo is not without his faults as well.
Roger says
If you guys pay attention yall would see that were not losing bad we just can’t finish games.Byron just don’t get the job done and Tibs is not worser Neva heard one of his players say that like I said u can blame it on the pplayers but its really the coach that don’t get no respect from none of his players except Kobe and that’s because he let him do anything he want and say what he want
rr says
Porzingis put up a 29/11 on 10/17 FGs tonight; New York is 6-6. Boston just won consecutive road games in OKC and HOU, both by double digits, and is 6-4 while holding Brooklyn’s #1 pick, unprotected.
LKK says
@rr… As you have stated many times it was imperative that the Lakers’ front office nail the #2 pick. It’s early, but I don’t think the Knicks would change things. Kris looks good and he’s huge. Boston is poised to take a step forward as well. Tough times in lala land!
Renato Afonso says
Like I said two or three threads ago, I believe that a player’s development is better and faster when (excluding the coach’s ability to develop a player) there’s a veteran to fight with him for minutes. Somebody that makes him look over his shoulder while teaching him the intricacies of the game during practice or while sharing the bench. Somebody that has developed parts of his game and show him how to do it. Yes, Nance is a very pleasant surprise but I tell you that his ceiling is not that high. He’s a good rotation player who can provide you 16-20 solid minutes and that’s it. His skills are not good enough to play the 3 spot not does he have lateral quickness to guard the true SF’s in this league, so we should just drop that conversation…
To me, the problem relies on Randle’s development and that’s my only concern at PF. Bass is a player better suited to that job than Nance. I know I’m against the flow here but I think we should let Nance get some hype and then trade him, as he would net a better deal than Bass at this point in their careers. Improving the team should be our focus and I believe this is the best way, even if I can recognize that Nance is being more productive than Bass (to some extent this is also virtue of Bass playing C). This would also solve the problem at Center with Bass moving to backup PF and Black assuming the backup C role. I have no problem with Kelly being the 11th or 12th man in the rotation for situational purposes.
Joe Houston says
I shake my head when people compare DAR to James Harden. Guys, the beardbwas coming off the bench and looked like an NBA player. DAR looks like he is playing in slow motion. He doesn’t have the foot speed to keep up with NBA guards on offense and defense.
Paul says
Don’t ever doubt Phil again, Jimmy!! Bad karma is a b’hach isn’t it?
Shaun says
We can totally keep our pick this year …. we will be the worst team in the west once the pelicans get their guys back and win some games.
Only teams we need to worry about are philly and brooklyn which would put us in the bottom 3 and keeping our pick.
If anything it would be great to see bill simmons have to watch ben simmons play for the lakers instead of Boston …… would be great
Also DAR is terrible …. can’t stay in front of his man or fight through a pick on D, and just seems like a regular guy on offense …. FO messed up the pick because the warriors won the championship and everyone was looking at their backcourt and thinking DAR could be the next curry …. hes too slow, indecisive and was terrible against good players in college which has resulted in him being terrible in the NBA
Warren Wee Lim says
First month into the season is when coaches and teams evaluate lineups, players and chemistry. This is where we evaluate the current and future fit of someone. This is also where we try to push and see what we have as a group.Evaluating the roster and from what we’ve seen, we can group the players that are playing well and those that are not, and those that have a future with us and those that obviously don’t.
The Good: Jordan Clarkson, Nick Young, Larry Nance, Roy Hibbert
The OK: Julius Randle, Metta World Peace, Lou Williams
The Bad: D’Angelo Russell, Ryan Kelly, Tarik Black
The Terrible: Kobe Bryant, Brandon Bass, Marcelo Huertas
DNP: Anthony Brown, Robert Sacre
Clarkson, Young, Hibbert are exceeding their expectations. Clarkson has been the Lakers best player last year and this year, and he looks to be the most-consistent so far. Swaggy is back because he has improved his efficiency while Hibbert is considered good because he is doing his part on the rim-protection department. The most important guy in this bunch, is Larry Nance Jr. More of him in a bit.
Julius Randle is essentially a rookie so him having monster nights and off-nights is normal. The best part is we’re seeing him improve day by day. That 18-footer is an important part of his repertoire because it causes defenses to play him both ways. Metta World Peace, considering he wasn’t in the NBA last season, is in great shape and form. Lou Williams has been both great, ok and frustrating, and he isn’t terrible despite some bad games. Overall, he was a value signing at 7M x 3.
The rest, need to man up. Ok, enough with that term. We need a new coach.
The point of the post is that while my data (and eye test) are limited, I would like for the Lakers to explore putting in Larry Nance Jr. as a potential starting 3 fit. He definitely has the hops, all he needs is a consistent go-to jumper move and shoot 1/3 from 3ball. His defense and impact to the games have been positive and his development into a really good rotation player has earned him the backup 4 spot. But I’d like for him to earn more minutes by playing some 3, a position currently occupied by 2 dinosaurs Kobe and Metta.
J C says
I think it’s way too early to bury Russell.
It seems unfair to compare his output to Mudiay’s, for example, when Mudiay has been given so much freedom to create whereas Russell seems to be mostly an afterthought on the floor after Clarkson, Randle, Kobe, Lou and Swag ‘eat first.’
Frankly, it’s amazing he gets any shots up at all.
His passing is exceptional and that’s why they picked him. When he has a roster around him that compliments his skillset, gains some more experience, and a coach that isn’t incompetent, he’ll improve.
On the other hand –
Porzingis and Okafor look pretty good. Damn.
Vasheed says
I posted a link showing how Russell has been a good floor general despite not getting the numbers a few threads back. So for this thread here is a link showing that Russell’s defense is not as horrible as being made out to be.
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2015/11/12/9724292/la-lakers-dangelo-russell-defense-film-analysis-wow
Mid-Wilshire says
This is slightly off topic, but last night in the D-League Anthony Brown had a very good night (as did Vander Blue). His numbers and those of Robert Upshaw are given below:
ANTHONY BROWN
22 pts,, 8-17 shooting, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 32 minutes
ROBERT UPSHAW
6 pts., 3-5 shooting, 4 rebounds, 2 blocks, 6 fouls, 13 minutes
Upshaw had 11 pts. and 6 rebounds in his first game, BTW. Below is a link to Browns’s highlights, To me he looks pretty smooth, very strong from 3 and fearless in driving to the basket. But, of course, it’s just the D League:
http://dleague.nba.com/games/20151117/LADBAK/
Anonymous says
OK, so the Lakers rookies Randle and Russell have not gotten off to fast starts. It doesn’t mean they are busts but it does make many of us nervous because they need to be better than good. The Lakers simply don’t have any talent outside of the kids (Clarkson has been a positive).
As Keith outlined above, the Lakers may not have a needed infusion of talent next summer. So the struggles we see this year will likely be lessened only by the kids improving next season.
If the kids look good by the summer of 2017 we should be able to add talent — we’ll have our draft pick and its shaping up to be a big free agent market. However, if Randle and Russell are still so/so by the summer of 2017 then that could be a problem — probably a big one.
Face it, we are a franchise that will be holding its collective breath for the next two years. We just don’t know what we have yet.
J C says
warren
if u start nance, is kobe coming off the bench?
never happen.
I do love nance’s game.
He’s a quality pick.
for all the grief the FO is getting about Russell, deserved or not,
the complainers gloss over nance’s subtle excellence and randle’s coming out party,
both of these players were selections made by the same FO.
Anonymous says
quality pick = keep hearing this about all of our picks, however
Anonymous says
the complainers gloss over nance’s subtle excellence
___
Nance is averaging 5 pts and 4 rbs in 18 minutes for 7 games. He’s been neither great or bad. He’s been a complementary player. Let’s hold off on the ‘subtle excellence’ until he’s really earned it.
If we can add Nance to the young core of Clarkson, Randle and Russell then we’ll have four rotation pieces. Which is a good start — considering we have little else. Let’s just hope that at least two of these youngsters are All Stars as that’s what we truly need.
T. Rogers says
“Porzingis and Okafor look pretty good. Damn.”
—
I’m cool on Okafor. He’s solid. But Porzingis has me watching Knicks games on League Pass and checking the box score when they are playing. That kid is special.
Calvin says
Wow Kristaps is playing incredibly well now. I thought it would take him a year or two to become mutant Dirk, but he’s improving every game. Porzingis is going to help the Knicks make the playoffs 🙁
Andres Garcia says
Even on this team and this system, where as others have pointed out, a lot of guys have to ‘eat’ first, DAR’s per 36 numbers aren’t bad (14/6rbs/4asst). If he traded places with Mudiay, he’d probably be putting up 15/5/5 every night bc of the volume of opportunities to make plays. His D is coming along and improving. His length is a factor there and on the glass. He just needs patience. Next year, after a year in a pro weight room, he’ll be stronger and move better which will extend the range on his J and his ability to operate closer to the cup. He’s not setting the world on fire. But, that J off the dribble and his vision in p n r look pretty nice.
matt says
Your right, randle black nance and bass are the same size, the two big boys of the group are bass and black, bass is probly the strongest, but he can’t catch or shoot in traffic so why put him in the middle, black is a good rebounder can catch in traffic and will dunk on people but is he the answer, something else sacre why did we keep him if he’s not gonna play, back to the upshaw argument
Lakafan says
Dwight coward gets another coach fired, I’m shocked!! Byron the bozo has to be next!! Mitch needs to MAN UP and show him the door!
Calvin says
Here’s an interesting point of discussion – is this another stealth tank season to keep the pick, just like last season? Maybe things are unfolding just like Mitch and Jim planned. Last season, Byron was always talking tough and talking about winning after every loss. I thought they were trying to win, until Jordan Clarkson said in an interview after allstar break that Byron told him not to worry about the results and just trust in the process.
matt says
Kelly should not play because he’s only able to guard one position and sucks on defensive rotation, as for randle nance and I’ll throw in mwp, these 3 players should be used together and randle or nance looks like they can play at sforward
BigCitySid says
– Amazing how all the Kobe & Laker haters from ESPN and other various outlets who said Kobe was done and the Lakers would stink were right on the money. I guess when predictions are made with the head instead of the heart one has an advantage.
Clay Bertrand says
“TRUST THE PROCESS” is the new “IT IS WHAT IT IS”……. another useless comment that NBA guys use to say pretty much NOTHING.
It’s the new annoying BUZZ saying for NBA rookies especially.
“Trust the Process” = YOU’LL BE BETTER WHEN YOU’RE OLDER
bluehill says
To paraphrase Jay-Z, we got a lot of problems, but I’m glad Dwight Howard isn’t one of them. That was addition by subtraction.
Anonymous says
Dwight was never the type of player that you could build a franchise around. He has 8 children from 8 different women. Not a lot of good decision making going on there.
I was all for the Howard deal when it was made. But clearly he’s a goof ball and we’re better off not being tied to his peter pan syndrome butt.
I just wonder if there was a better fit for the Lakers out there based on selling Bynum at the absolute peak of his value? Would have been nice to have a legitimate player left on the team from that time frame 2012 – 2014.
Chris J says
Anonymous November 17, 2015 at 5:28 pm
—————
Great post.
bluehill says
Yeah, back then we were clearly making one last attempt at winning it all. I understood the FO’s thinking in terms of getting another ring for Dr. Buss and Kobe, but I wasn’t in favor of it because of the cost in draft picks. I thought it was binary kind of high risk/high reward decision: either it was going to work spectacularly well and we would win it all or make a deep run for a couple of years; or it would utterly fail and we would be bottom-dwellers for a long time because of Kobe and Nash’s ages, Dwight’s immaturity and the cost in draft picks.
Vasheed says
I think I would agree with Matt,
I thought using PF’s all the time last year at Center was horrible. Playing Bass at Center this year is almost as bad as playing Kelly at SF last year. The Lakers aren’t using Sacre and that leads me back to the obvious player to bring back and develop at Center Upshaw. Black should be the 3rd option or for situational small ball line ups but, he should be seeing time at PF.
At PF I would have a rotation of of Randle, Nance, and Black. The other guys should be on the trade block although I’m willing to trade to Randle if it meant getting something in return of value and then keeping Bass instead.
I’m not overly enthusiastic at this point at trying to get Randle or Nance to play SF. I think that only works if you play one of them with Kelly and that only works if for some reason the other team doesn’t stick their SF on Kelly to defend him.
tankyou says
@T. Rogers, agree with the Porzingis assessment, I have seen a few Knick games and he seems to be improving quickly. He still looks like a screech though, it would be good if he bulks up a bit more. But I can see why some said he could be a Dirk type player, he’s agile, has a really nice shot. PJ may have very well made the best draft pick from last year, although Towns & Okafor look solid as well for rooks.
Every game I watch I keep thinking, how is this guy going to be a game changer for us? I just don’t see DAR being anything but a modest starter in this league. Maybe a 4th option sort of guy, but as many point out I think his foot speed is highly questionable, he may always be a major negative on defense.
I’m just waiting for our first big signing one of these years to help right the ship. I honestly don’t believe Clarkson/DAR/Randle can make us an elite team. Sure they will get better, and if the Lakers quit signing endless POWER FORWARDS and no-defense (well beyond Hibbert) guys we may eek into the low 40 win column within 2-3 years. So basically I believe we have to either make the trade of the decade eventually for some disgruntled top tier guy, or really get lucky in signing someone that just loves LA. But the Western conference looks to be a rough place for at least a few more years. Too many youngish guys wed to their teams. The huge salary cap raise seems unlikely to help our cause either.
T. Rogers says
“I just wonder if there was a better fit for the Lakers out there based on selling Bynum at the absolute peak of his value? Would have been nice to have a legitimate player left on the team from that time frame 2012 – 2014.”
—
At the time I think Howard for Bynum was a great deal. The real problem was Howard walking for nothing in the Summer of 2013. Speaking of Howard for Bynum, Sixers fans probably look at keeping the Lakers pick this year as poetic justice for having Bynum dumped on them.
T. Rogers says
Side note: Houston’s interim coach is JB Bickerstaff, son of Bernie Bickerstaff. We Laker fans probably remember fondly that brief period the elder Bickerstaff was the interim for the Lakers. Interesting turn of events.
Archon says
T Rogers,
The elder Bickerstaff was the best Laker coach of the 2000’s not named Phil Jackson and the dude coached 5 games.
If there is any indictment on the front office that’s hard to refute it has been their choice of head coaches.
matt says
Troy murphy looks like the nerd from the show friends schwimmer? He was definitely scared of kobe,
Randle is scared to take a jumper
Russell is scared of being benched
Clarkson is scared of switching on def
Kobe is scared of being mediocre
Bass is scared to catch a pass down low
Tarik is scared he might hurt someone
Young is scared lou will steal his swagger
Lou is scared he might have to start
matt says
Kelly is scared of shaving
Hibbert is scared of disappointing Stephen a smith
Mid-Wilshire says
An article has just appeared on CBS Sports rating the rookies. The writer (whom I’m not familiar with), Ananth Pandian, rates D’Angelo Russell #8 and Larry Nance #14 among all rookies. He considers Russell as “promising” and admits that “the potential is there” although he’s getting mixed signals from Byron Scott. He’s not nearly as down on Russell as some Laker fans appear to be.
Here’s a link to the report: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25379174/rookie-power-rankings-jahlil-okafor-a-winning-pick-for-losing-sixers
R says
Thanks for providing the link, Mid.
Pandian seems to like Okafour’s stuff.
Ah, well.
Robert says
Mid: The problem with Russell is that he is the #2 pick. With a pick that high, the objective is not to get someone who is OK and has potential. It is certainly not to get the 8th best guy available. When you have a top 3 pick, you need to get a game changer player. The number 8 worked for Kobe when he came into the league, but in this case it is not a good number for Russell.
Mid-Wilshire says
Robert,
You’re right. It occurred to me that we had the #2 pick and (so far) it appears that we have the eighth best rookie. Of course, the season’s not over. We have a long ways to go. But I understand your picking up on that.
Hale says
Chauncey Billups, 3rd overall pick, rookie year, 21 yrs old, 51 games in Boston / 29 Toronto. Traded to Denver during the Summer.
1997-98 FGA: 749, FG%: .374 , 3P%: .329, 2P%: .408, EFG%: .445, FTA: 266 FT%: .850, AST: 314, STL: 107, BLK: 4, TO: 174
It took him 3-4 years before he made it to Minny and his numbers started to rise.
D’Angelo Russell, 19 yrs old, 11 games in: FG%: .393, 3P%: .310, 2P%: .446, dFG%: .453, FT%: .727, AST: 30, STL: 11, BLK: 3, TO: 17
Basketball-reference.com
Oh Russell isn’t athletic… He’s lethargic… He smells like teen spirit… *whine whine whine*
(C/F) Al Jefferson, Chauncey Billups, Steve Nash, Brandon Roy, Antoine Walker (F)…
He’s soOooOo athletic! Stevie Thompson, Harold Minor, Antonio Harvey, Anthony Rudolph, Javale McGee, Shannon Brown, Gerald Green… *swOoon*
Hoopshabit (Lakers Rookie is in good company)
http://hoopshabit.com/2015/11/18/dangelo-russell-good-company/
Of course, freak out if you like. I recall analysts saying that it would take Russell awhile and that Okafor would get you more immediate results. 11 games in, part of that has presented itself. Russell might not be the answer but he certainly isn’t the problem.
Robert says
Mid: The “so far” is where there is hope. It is early and way to early for final evaluations. Problem is that early returns say that Russell is behind, Randle is about where he should be, and Nance is ahead. That is the opposite of what we would hope for. I do not think we should get too down on Russell (yet), but saying we nailed these picks is beyond premature and is simply wishful thinking.
Teamn says
Renato,
Thought provoking post, thanks. That would be an interesting approach for the team to take. I think I could see Nance staying without Bass here, but you’re right it seems difficult to envision how Randle and Nance develop while showcasing Bass in the most positive light for a trade. Too many people for the same position.
KevTheBold says
Even though we had no hand in the number 2 draft pick, all this buyers remorse, is totally a counter productive waste of time; and to be quite frank, as annoying as complaining about the size of your big toe.
The deal is done, so we either support the kid who now represents our team, or we become yet another negative factor.
Now, I’m not suggesting that we accept and welcome a player who clearly does not uphold our stringent standards, however in this case, we landed a smart, respectful kid who clearly desires to become what we need of him.
As for his talent, too many are looking to validate their preferred picks, versus doing research into who D’Angelo is, and what he’s capable of. Not, what you have seen under Scott’s control, but what the kid can actually do.
If you can, or are willing to do that, you would discover that all the negatives you have posted are invalidated; and you will begin to feel much better about our future.
Look at him as an adopted child, which can one day grow up to take care of us.
Isn’t it much smarter to build him up, than tear him down?
pat oslon says
We had a glut of power forwards and no small forwards last season too.
Fern says
There is no way in freaking hell anyone can convince me that Mudiay is playing better and show more promise than DAR, thats total horsecrap from people bitter with the fact that we didnt draft him, the difference between Mudiay and DAR? He was given the car keys from day one and learning on the fly with a ton of minutes even if he mess up, DAR is averagin 9.5 ppg with what? Less than 25 minutes with better stats in fg,3 point shooting, ft shooting and a better PER, Mudiay has him beat in assists but he dont have to deal with all the guys that need the ball in our team and BS annoying short leash Mudiay like DAR has some decent games but he is been atrocius for the most part even worse than Russell , but his coach is sticking with him, if DAR got the leeway Mudiay gets in Denver he would have better numbers than Mudiay all across the board, if the Lakers drafted Mudiay and he were putting the numbers he is putting in Denver, people would be triying to burn him at the stake here, so stop the hipocrisy. DAR needs to be played long minutes and let him crash and burn, he either have it or he don’t, but i think he will get his chance as the season keeps circling down the drain. About the PF situation, if Kobe is getting rested or is injured or dealing with his age related pains and whatnot, i stick Nance in the starting lineup as a tall 3, i mean, why not? He is worth a try, have Metta as a backup and let Bass and Black slide back to their original positions, hell even give Sacre some burn for crissakes!!!
LT Mitchell says
When Phil joined the Knicks, many here, mostly Phil hating Jimbo lovers, questioned his abilities as a front office exec. He inherited a lottery team with bad contracts and a star supposedly past his prime. It could be argued that the Knicks, at the time, were in worse shape than the Jimbo led Lakers.
The race was on! The question was, could Phil turn around the Knicks faster than Jimbo… even though Jimbo had a couple years head start?
Phil, as usual, came in with a plan…..a vision. He managed to resign Carmelo, hired a bright coach who is a leader of men (after being a whisker away from hiring Kerr), got rid of players who didn’t fit his vision, signed complementary players in Robin Lopez and Affalo who fit his system and vision (not redundant players like Jimbo did), and hit the lotto in the draft despite being 2 picks behind Jimbo.
If Jeannie had her wish, it would be Phil running the Lakers. The Lakers front office would very likely have a solid plan for the future, a coach who can actually think the game, a draft pick that makes fans giddy with hope, and a face to the franchise who could help draw elite free agents….. but sadly, we are stuck with Jimbo.
Robert says
Kev: You want to think of DAR as the adopted child, and think anything but praise is a waste of time. Well perhaps we should think of Kobe as the family patriarch, and Byron as the crazy Uncle. They are family too ! Talking about putting Kobe in the old folks home and disowning Byron as you have implied is a complete waste of time. Or is one waste of time better than another?
KO says
LT. Maybe not. Last 2 games I went to the regular season ticket holders had sold their seats. Staples should change its name to Ticket Stub with once a year people sitting.
Expect empty seats or boos as this mess continues. Looking at other teams I doubt any current Lakers woud start. Clarkson is best player and what team in West would he start for? This is a really bad organization and Mitch has become a puppet to Jimbo.
Very hard to watch.
Hale says
Clarkson vs starting 1s or 2s in the West:
Portland (McCollum), Houston (Beverly, Lawson, Terry), OKC (Andre Robinson, DJ Augustine), Memphis (Chalmers, Lee, Adams), Pelicans (Holiday, Evans, Douglas), Denver (Gary Harris), Minny (LaVine, Martin), Utah (Burke, Burks, Hood, Neto)
KevTheBold says
Per Robert: “Kev: You want to think of DAR as the adopted child, and think anything but praise is a waste of time. Well perhaps we should think of Kobe as the family patriarch, and Byron as the crazy Uncle. They are family too ! Talking about putting Kobe in the old folks home and disowning Byron as you have implied is a complete waste of time. Or is one waste of time better than another?”
Actually Robert, I don’t think anything but praise is a waste of time.
Constructive criticism is great !
What I’m addressing is all the premature calls of “Bust”.
With regards to Scott and Kobe:
Though I’m not one of the ones calling for Scott’s head, I must admit that I would not stand in the way of a mob if they were storming Staples to throw him out.
As for Kobe, I have too much respect for the man to see him playing a caricature of himself in a farewell tour.
Especially when this nostalgic act is being performed during the critical phase of our youth core attempting to learn and meld into a cohesive unit.
With regards to loyalty, though I secretly admire the Busses for this sentimental part of their makeup, I can also see the negative results which not only hurt Laker nation as a whole, but is detrimental to their bottom line.
If they wanted to be loyal to the Laker faithfuls, they could have exercised that urge in a more intelligent fashion, like using that huge un-earned salary for Kobe to hire him as the official Laker ambassador, scout, trainer, or such.
If they did, we would most likely have signed a major free agent by this point.
The Same for Scott, should have hired him as a army sergeant training camp director or some other job more aligned with his talents.
I believe this musical chair coach game the NBA has been playing for decades needs to stop.
Coaches get fired from one team and end up on another, time and time again.
These old school coaches are out of sync with the time, and imo, all need to go.
Look at last seasons finals,.. Two first time NBA coaches.
Time to move on,…Let’s give a new generation a chance.
At this point, I would even accept Maddog Madsen.
matt says
Your telling me mudiay has a worse shooting percentage than Russell right now, russell is shooting poorly right now, therefore mudiay has gotta be the worst shooter ever