It used to be you could put Kobe Bryant in any scheme and he would excel. Triangle offense? Sure. Spread pick and roll? You got it. Flex? Princeton? Whatever Del Harris or Rudy T ran? He’d still get his because, well, when you are that good at scoring the basketball, it does not matter.
At its most simplest level, Kobe would have the ball, the guy in front of him (and the guy behind that guy) would have to try and stop him from scoring, and they couldn’t. Check-mate.
Those days are gone. And if you didn’t know they were gone from simply watching Kobe play in his 20th season, you should know now that he’s telling you himself.
Kobe: "I’ve got to do a better job of demanding some help off the ball to get some easier chances, pin downs, picks, catch & shoots"
— Serena Winters (@SerenaWinters) November 25, 2015
Mark Medina of the LA Daily News took this to mean Kobe (among others) may be hinting at the need to change the system the Lakers run:
That explains why Bryant wished out loud that he could get “easier shots” off pindowns, off-ball screens and catch-and-shoot opportunities. He said he will “work with the bigs and get some movements off the ball.” But Bryant also suggested the need for Scott to change his Princeton-based system.
“My shooting is better and will be better. But I could’ve scored 80 tonight. It wouldn’t have made a damn difference,” Bryant said. “You have bigger problems. I could be out there averaging 35 points per game. We’ll be what, 3-11? We have to figure out how to play systematically in a position that’s going to keep us in ball games.”
Perhaps easier said than done.
I’m all for the Lakers trying new things and incorporating different actions into their offensive scheme. Some of the actions they run now are just filler in order to set up another wing isolation. All the players could benefit from shifting things some, creating more ball and player movement, and trying to put players in better positions to attack against defenses which aren’t set. Kobe could certainly benefit from it.
That said, the Lakers should be moving beyond doing any one specific thing to make Kobe’s life easier. Catering too much to what Kobe is good at or how to maximize him specifically should not be any more of a priority than trying to do the same for Randle, Clarkson, or Russell. Not just because those guys are the future, but because they have shown to be just as important (if not more important) to the team’s success than Kobe.
Yes, Kobe is the team’s elder-statesmen and deserves to be respected for all he’s accomplished in a storied, Hall of Fame career. But this game is still performance based. Players of Kobe’s status have earned a level of trust, but that trust must be rewarded with actions which reinforce it otherwise it becomes enabling of the worst kind. Byron Scott does himself no favors with Kobe or with the rest of the team by implying it should be different. It creates a double-standard few, if any, find palatable.
So, while Kobe talks about getting himself easier shots and hoping for more to be done for him, I’m hoping the coach listens, nods his head, and then understands that any changes enacted need to be more about maximizing the entire team. After all, there used to be a time where he’d get his regardless. If he’s just like everyone else now, then let everyone else be part of the focus too.
Vasheed says
Kobe has also said in the past the offense should be run through Russell. I think the call for system change is more important than solely how that would effect Kobe. But Kobe is acknowledging he can’t just will his team to victory anymore.
Anonymous says
From the previous thread:
___
This season is an overt tank.
___
If the Lottery rules remain unchanged here are the odds for getting a pick in the top 3:
– Worst record: 64.3%
– 2nd Worst Record: 55.8%
– 3rd Worst Record: 46.9%
– 4th Worst Record: 36.4%
– 5th worst record: 29.2%
There is no upside this year so let the team fall on the weight of its own futility. Ben Simmons would look good in a Lakers uniform.
Anonymous says
Even Robert has to see by now that Byron Scott is making terrible decisions with regards to the development of the players (not to mention in-game decisions on those rare occasions where the score is close). Now Kobe is saying he is not happy with the way they are being made to play. This dude has to go.
Robert says
Ano: I already said that I want Byron gone immediately. I want it done at 3:00 AM and I want it done via Twitter so there is intrigue and controversy. I want the announcement of the firing to be accompanied by a statement that says, “The interim will be decided as soon as possible”.
Byron: I supported his hiring, but said many times he was placeholder. That time is past, and it seems that we will need yet another placeholder to finish the year. At some point we will have a roster and our “next” VP of Basketball Ops can hire a decent permanent coach (after probably one more failure of a selection from the incumbent VP).
Kobe: He is playing horribly however he is still Kobe. He did not give himself the extension (which I was against), and he did not plow through coaches 1 per year for four years (it is a given that one more will be added to the list and it will be 5 if you count Bernie, 6 if you coiunt the summer of 2016 hire).
Alert: I try to be as positive as I can be, but perhaps I should be like others who are blaming their favorite targets three times per day. For many of you that target is either Kobe or Byron. As you know I prefer to target the source of our issues, and those that signed the contracts with Kobe, Byron, Lou and Nick. At what point did they think any of that would help the development of youngsters and help our franchise into its next era?
So I wait for the summer of 2017. In the meantime I will root for Kobe and read with interest the posts of those who think all will be solved when Byron is fired.
Snarky George says
The Lakers and Kobe’s poor play, on national TV, is garnering a lot of media attention — the type of publicity the FO would prefer not to get.
SB Nation’s Tom Ziller wrote an article about them. The article title says it all: ‘The only way to save Kobe Bryant from himself is to play him less’
The article ends with: “This — putting a limit on Kobe — is a new concept for the Lakers and Scott, but it’s the only reasonable solution to prevent this from spiraling fully into farce … if we aren’t already there.’
The link: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/11/25/9798738/kobe-bryant-terrible-bad-la-lakers
barty says
No Kobe if you could’ve scored 80 the game would’ve been a whole lot more entertaining. The Oracle crowd would’ve given you an O.
The TNT was having a good laugh at the Lakers. We need more of that, frankly. We need more ridicule and hatorade to spur the FO.
Firing Byron may not fix anything, let alone everything. But good lord you gotta start somewhere. After the coach, the management. Can’t just rely on the pick. We could end up being one of those teams that are in the lottery years after years and still go nowhere.
Anonymous says
Does anyone have any insight into what the FO is feeling right now? Are they upset that the Lakers are on pace to set yet another franchise worse won/loss record?
I just get the feeling that the Buss kids know that our angst and frustration can’t negatively impact their bottom line so they really don’t care. Someone wrote yesterday that this is what it looks like when failure on the court doesn’t dent the cash flow — no incentive to actually hire people who know what they are doing.
barty says
No Kobe if you could’ve scored 80 the game would’ve been a whole lot more entertaining. The Oracle crowd would’ve given you an O.
The TNT was having a good laugh at the Lakers. We need more of that, frankly. We need more ridicule and hatorade to spur the FO.
Firing Byron may not fix anything, let alone everything. But good lord you gotta start somewhere. After the coach, the management. Can’t just rely on the pick. We could end up being one of those teams that are in the lottery years after years and still go nowhere.
Edit: excellent sbnation article. What I hope happens is Kobe announces he is retiring after this year, period. No if and or but. Do the farewell tour like Kareem did. Let them bring out the rocking chair. Let him get the appreciation from the fans and the opposing players. Play Kobe very limited minutes, keep him very fresh, and hope he can pull a couple of Kobe moves here and there. In a close game, go ahead and put him in. He can take the last shot if he wants. We don’t need to win anyway.
I would think this is a much more attractive option for Kobe and the team than what’s happening now.
iowalaker says
Maybe Kobe should just retire now. Take Byron with him on an extended fishing trip.
desmo says
Way OT. When I was a kid in the sixties I grew up in Escondido. One night my dad took me to a JC basketball game at Palomar College. He had heard about this 7′ kid from NY that we should go watch. It was the UCLA freshman team vs Palomar JC and the kid from NY was Lew Alcindor..I remember watching the scoreboard and waiting for UCLA to get a 100 points because the scoreboard only had 2 digits…..A great night that was…..
LT Mitchell says
Jimbo has turned the most esteemed franchise in basketball into a complete laughingstock. Until he is gone, there is little hope to turn this ship around. Is there a more inept and less respected owner in the NBA? ……. I’m waiting. He is the only owner who cannot attend free agent meetings because his reputation makes him a liability. At least Dolan had the wisdom to hire someone like Phil to captain the ship. Even Sterling gave a kings ransom to bring Doc on board.
If Jimbo has any respect for the organization his late father helped create, he would step down immediately to allow Jeannie to hire someone deserving of the position…. someone players and fans can respect and someone who understands basketball.
To most, it’s been clear for years that Jimbo has had no clue. As Robert mentioned, it’s silly to blame Byron, Kobe, Mitch, the trainers, Russell or any other reason. The blame starts and ends from the top.
KC says
It seems like Byron’s tenure will end along with Kobe retiring. He might be the scapegoat the FO will sacrifice as part of the purging process. In any case, I have no idea what’s going on with the Lakers, they look lost and directionless and without an identity.
Byron might lack the creativity to make this group of players work or coming up with offensive/defensive schemes that work with personnel. In any case, it definitely feels like tanking but I hate to see Kobe’s last season being wasted as such (yes, his shooting can improve, heck it can only improve from what he put up last night, right?). KG’s career is winding down nicely and so is Tim Duncan’s. Common connection? Less of a role in terms of minutes and more of a role in mental toughness / support.
I hope we get better, just more competitive from this point. It’s clear to see that there are confusion at all levels of the team, yes including FO, Byron, Kobe and other young “core” players.
Ian R. says
That was the most embarrassing and worst laker game I have ever witnessed. Only positive is it was so bad that it might push them to fire Byron.
If Byron isn’t fired after this then yes they are blatantly tanking.
tankyou says
This “entertainment” is just not very entertaining currently. IF I was younger and still had joints that could handle the strain I would play the game, rather than spending so much time watching it. But alas, the Lakers are a mess, I’m sure it will eventually work itself out. But honestly, I have no idea if the team will be in the playoffs again anytime soon, maybe 2025? Other teams have gone on long playoff droughts. Barring a star type player signing in the years to come, I don’t think these 3 young guys are going to be good enough to make us a playoff team alone. Hopefully they can make us a 40win team and we can at least be in the conversation for the playoffs.
The good news is we live in the media age. IF you want to root for Kobe there are so many amazing old games to watch, I for one like watching old playoff games once in awhile. I can watch those old Laker vs. Celtics playoff games over and over and still find some joy in them. But as I said before, this team is worse than last years team–and its being proven. Last year’s team had far more established talent and oddly enough better defense. Last years team easily would have won 30 games no problem if they didn’t have half their team hurt at any given time, and of course Byron/FO didn’t do that weird lose on purpose stuff by starting Kelly/Sacre and making our best players bench guys. But oh well, we got DAR, yipee.
Randle needs to seriously shoot more, he has a long way to go, but he gets lost in the shuffle far too much. DAR/Clarkson aren’t going to lead us to the promised land, there are tons of good guards in this league–and they can’t begin to defend any of them. So they need to improve offensively just not to be a net negative all the time.
I agree with Kobe, he needs to take easier shots, against 2nd stringers, with limited minutes, and inside 20 feet. But at this point there are plenty of guys that can D Kobe up, the days of him dominating 1×1 is over. So I’m going to go out on a limb and say the 76ers beat us, they have to be super hungry for a win, and although their defense stinks also, they have some consistent offense from their bigs that can give us trouble.
Chris J says
The Lakers should hire Del Harris, as he’s the only one with a track record of putting Kobe on the bench.
The Lakers have many, many issues. But until No. 24 is removed from his role they cannot get better. 1 for 14 is Willie Mays stumbling around Shea Stadium as a Met territory. You’d think Kobe would have more dignity than to want to go out this way, but he’s always been stubborn and self-assured… Regardless, the end is near and it won’t be pretty.
JeffT says
desmo: Very much not OT since last night felt a lot like Palomar JC playing Alcindor-led UCLA freshmen (didn’t their freshman team beat the varsity team?).
We need to quit trying to make the game easier for Kobe and start making it easier for the kids. We need to set up a system that actually develops DAR into our point guard of the future, as well as getting the ball into Randle’s hands in better spots than just the 3-point line.
matt says
I totally agree with this ” not just maximizing kobe but clarkson, randle, and russell, not just because they are the future but because they have a specific skill set” ,russell looks like he knows how to get open looks if and when we get a better coach you gotta hope he blows up, clarkson is a scoring machine and make things happen on his own, if they ran better plays he would excel, the player i see as the worst utilitized player on offense is julius randle, he might be the best driving to the rim power forward since karl Malone, but he doesn’t have karls other skills like post up fades and mid range, anywayz, randle desperately needs an offensive sceme that cater to his driving skill, this skill needs development, he unlike the other two mentioned needs to be coached, passing on the drive needs development, screens down low and so on… i dont know why the coach is such an %$@&!/, but just gotta hope these guys have the patience and heart to preservere
Clay Bertrand says
“I could have scored 80….wouldn’t have made a difference.”
No. No you could NOT have scored 80.
That sentence is the problem right there in a nut shell. Kobe refuses to accept that THIS IS HIM now. He CAN’T do any better. Sure he can shoot a little better (normally he’d go 4-14…) but this is IT. Give it up man!!!! Have some freaking dignity and take a back seat to the young core. There’s no shame and no one thinks anything less of you for doing that. You are starting to tarnish your legacy ALL BY YOURSELF.
“I’ve got to do a better job of demanding some help off the ball to get some easier chances, pin downs, picks, catch & shoots”…..
SMH, so Kobe is “DEMANDING” that everyone else, WHILE HE IS HOGGING THE BALL, do things to make HIS SHOTS EASIER!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Whaaaaaaaat?!?!?
Should we make the rims bigger and make the players all WALK too so that its EASIER for Kobe to play the game!!?!?!?
Kobe is the big “I” in “TEAM” apparently.
How about an honest, “I need to play fewer minutes. I need to take fewer shots. I’m not what I once so I need to adapt my game and take a step back offensively. I also play NO defense….”
Or “I EARNED the right to be this crappy and to force the coach to play me as long as I want. Screw your future!!! This is about ME!!! Did I mention I could have scored 80?!!?!?!”
He’s becoming everything he DIDN’T want to be at the end of his career and he can’t even see it.
Just pathetic.
BigCitySid says
– Amazing, Kobe still believes it’s all about him.
IT WAS THE BEST OF (Kobe’s) TIMES (’99-’00, ’00-’01, ‘01-’02 & ’08-’09, ’09-’10) AND IT IS THE WORST OF (Kobe’s) TIMES (’13-’14, ’14-’15, ’15-’16)
– What will happen this season if (yes, big if) it becomes obvious Russell and the team play better when Kobe is not on the floor?
– Kobe is on the verge of setting another historical NBA record. 1st player to miss more than 14,000 field goal attempts. He already holds the record for most missed shots at 13,890. At his current rate of missed fgs per game (11.27) that will happen in less than10 games. 3rd all time/ scoring, 3rd all time/ fga’s taken, 5th all time/ fg’s made, 1st all time/ fg’s missed…anyway you add it up, it’s bad math.
– On Byron Scott. It should be obvious to all, the only reason Scott was hired to coach this team is because he agreed to “Let Kobe Be Kobe” a coaching job requirement by the Buss Family.
– Two records the Lakers are in danger of breaking this year:
– “Lakers all time worst start” and “Lakers all time worst record”.
– This franchise has only won less than 30 games in a season FOUR times in their 68 year history…so far. Unfortunately it’s happened TWICE in the last two years…with a real possibility of three years straight. Some feel this is okay, as long as they are…entertained. I’m not one of them.
This is the bottom line thru 14 games of this season and their worst four previous seasons:
2015-2016 thru 14 games: 2-12 (?? win season/ 82 game season, ???)
2014-2015 thru 14 games: 3-11 (21 win/ 82 game season, .256)
2013-2014 thru 14 games: 7-7 (27 win/ 82 game season, .329)
1959-1960 thru 14 games: 4-10 (25 wins/ 75 game season, .333)
1957-1958 thru 14 games: 2-12 (19 wins/ 73 game season, .264)
– Who would have thought with a healthy Kobe, the # 2 overall pick in the draft, a soft early schedule, and an improved roster overall, this years’ version of the Lakers would start the season WORST than last season? They are now tied with the worst record thru 14 games in Laker history.
– Worst ownership in NBA: Lakers and Kings, they are in a class by themselves.
Kbj says
Getting Kobe shots and the young players shots don’t have to be mutually exclusive. I’m sure if the Lakers had Gregg Popovich as coach, he would find some way to accommodate Kobe and the other players. Unfortunately, it is impossible to do so with Byron Scott as coach and with this offense. Wow, this offense was hard to watch last night. Guys were bumping into each other while running sets. Players wandered aimlessly around the perimeter. I doubt anybody except players like Curry and Lebron can play well in this offense and its fairly obvious Kobe is not in that tier anymore. At this point, Kobe needs an offense that can get him to his spots easier than now. That’s how I interpreted Kobe’s comments. He understands that this offense sucks and there is no way he can play well in it.
matt says
I also agree that firing the coach will not help anything, even if you have the best coach you would not win much more to please us, this coach is a fill-in, and i was reminded above that if they tank the top 3 picks are the not guaranteed because of the lottery
matt says
Clay, i could’ve have scored 80,, lol,, i can’t believe he said that
Gene says
Kobe should demand he doenst shoot so much..
matt says
Clay, also, kobe’s been doing this crap for a long time, pau gasol gets props for playing along side him that long, remember everything was always pau’s fault, jeremy lin got abused last year it was his fault, these are just 2 I’ve mentioned, both really nice guys, d’angelo russell seems to fit the mold as kobe’s next victims, he seems like a nice guy, be watching for it, coming soon
matt says
Sorry to jump back on this again but it’s such a great point,,, think about this, kobe is the leader of the team and his tendency to blame others is huge, its gotta effect thee attitude of those around him, I’ve already noted that russell seemed to be under-appreciated by his teammates, I’m just speculating this based on whenever russell makes a mistake the body language of others on the team looks to confirm this, kobe has been supportive of russell thus far but because of who he is it might have effected others around him, kobe still has a little bit of playing qualities left but his ego destroy it, no one on the team alone should be blamed for this mess I’ve seen mistakes from every player, most notably the veterans mwp, kobe, bass, williams, and hibbert. This type of attitude is one of the reasons nobody wants to play here, i hate to defend Dwight howard cuz he’s overrated but he couldn’t wait to leave kobe’s blame game behind.
rr says
Kobe and Byron: All the vitriol flying around now goes back to what I said a couple of weeks ago: Lakers fans would mostly be OK watching the team get waxed all the time if they were watching the young guys getting coached by a youngish, positive coach, but no one really wants to a guy like Byron Scott coach a 2-12 team with Kobe in his dotage going 1/14.
That said, people spending a lot of time Tweeting and posting about how down they are on Kobe and Byron should IMO consider giving it a rest and talking FO/decisions/personnel/roster more if they want to complain all the time. We get it: you want Kobe to retire or you want him to shoot a lot less, and you want Byron fired immediately. But the truth is that this scenario was not a lock (no scenario is) but it was probable, and that was clear from the time the Kobe extension was offered and the Byron hire was made–and those were both FO decisions.
Team/tactics/rotations: Again, this is pretty obvious. Cut Kobe’s minutes, get him off the three-point line, play all six young guys as part of the rotation, and shop the vets. The FO should either order Byron to do that or hire a guy who will.
Tanking: If the Lakers FO believes, as some observers seem to, that Ben Simmons is a generational player, the kind of guy who comes along only every few years, then the Lakers should look to tank, but I wouldn’t do that by running Kobe out there to put up more 1/14s with half his shots from the 3P line. The six young guys plus Kobe, Hibbert, and cameos from the other vets will lose plenty of games.
Stealth Tanking: Don’t buy it, never did, probably never will. I simply agree with Todd, in that the FO tried to do too many things at once.
Kobe’s Legacy: Is five Rings, two Gold Medals, 3rd All-time scorer, first-ballot HoF, and eventually, a Statue outside Staples and two jerseys hanging in the rafters inside Staples. Willie Mays had 1954 and 1965 before he played in 1973.
agenbite of says
The first step is to ask the basic loose structure of their future offense, which I think is run things through Russell and Randal with Clarkson already looking like he understands his future role as a slasher and three point shooter. But there is no formula or offense to make it work, just basic principles of offense and lots of work and mistakes. They both are creative playmakers, Russell especially so, put them in positions to develope it.
Kobe could show another dimension of his talent if he could help it happen, but will his body, and especially his mind, allow him to do so?
Byron is in a tough spot, watch a superstar in denial at his failing body, developed a young team, and win now. Good luck.
Terri says
Are Jim and Mitch on the same page? I always got the sense that Jim pulled rank on Mitch and that Mitch if he was in full control would have pursued a more measured approach to the rebuild.
Maybe, as a Lakers fan, I’m grabbing at straws. I want to believe my favorite team isn’t being run by people completely out of touch with reality. I thought we had already experienced the bottom last year. Sure looks as if there’s more trouble ahead.
Sad — just sad.
bluehill says
I can’t believe Kobe said that. I hope it was out of context or he was joking. If not, he is delusional and his presence will continue to have a negative effect on the development of the new guys.
Popovich couldn’t coach Kobe because it appears his primary concern isn’t about how to improve the team as it is with Duncan.
I can’t say it’s a total surprise. To me, Kobe has always seemed to lean more to the selfish rather than selfless end of the spectrum. It’s just when he was younger he was good enough that his pursuit of individual goals fit with the the teams goals. Now it’s a real detriment. I’m sure this what drove Phil crazy.
rubenowski says
Kobe obviously didnt mean he was capable of scoring 80. His point was that the team is so bad that scoring 80 wouldnt have mattered.
What’s a little concerning, however, is that a few days ago Kobe did suggest that he could score 25 whenever he wanted but that he needed to step back and let the young guys grow. It’s concerning because he either thinks he can still do so whenever he wants (which is delusional) or he’ll shoot as many times as needed in order to get to 25, and thats a problem cos he’ll have to shoot like 30 times at a 33% rate. I dont like either reason.
Sam says
I hate to arm chair quarterback this but many of us saw this coming. The extension, in pure basketball sense was a disaster. Kobe was 34 and off of an Achilles injury — if this outcome was’t a real concern then the FO wasn’t thinking about wins and losses.
Todd, in a previous post said it all: when winning ceases to be the driving force of your organization and when failure does not hurt you financially then what incentive is there to put basketball people in charge. Jim’s, ‘I got this!’ persona is going to really damage the franchise if no one steps in.
The Buss kids are rich but that doesn’t make the smart or particularly good at what they do.
Nutone67 says
Kobe should follow the example set by Elgin Baylor and just call it a career right now. Its not getting better. I respect and love him for everything he has done for the Lakers in his career and I would rather he retire now than struggle through this entire season.
As for the coach, its obvious we need a new coach and I’d like to see us bring Walton in once the season ends. He is getting the experience as a HC with the Warriors and would love to apply their offense and defense with these young guys on our team.
rr says
I think KB meant that even if he had scored 80, the team would still be bad, and I think he was using hyperbole to make a point, not saying he could have scored 80 if he felt like it. Here is the whole quote:
“I’m not really worried about it, honestly,” Bryant said. “My shooting will be better. I could’ve scored 80 tonight. It wouldn’t have made a damn difference. We just have bigger problems. I could be out there averaging 35 points a game. We’d be what, 3-11? We’ve got to figure out how to play systematically in a position that’s going to keep us in ballgames.”
—
The important part of this quote is the part about bigger problems.
bluehill says
Yeah I misread that. Good to know that Kobe isn’t delusional. Unfortunately, I still have doubts about his willingness to put the team ahead of his own goals.
Kareeme says
Is it bad that I keep refreshing Lakers blogs to see if Scott’s been fired yet. I feel it in my bones. But the aimlessness of the FO right now seems insurmountable. I really feel that they don’t know what to do or where to go. They’re looking down a 3-5 year rebuild, and everyone wants solutions now. Step 1: Scott is gone and pick an interim coach that will focus on development and team chemistry. Unfortunately, there’s not much sunshine after that. Step 2: Package Williams, Bass, and Young and play all the young guns–Black, Brown, Nance, Russell, Randle, Clarkson, Huertas. Metta and Kobe and Hibbert are enough veteran presence for this year. Step 3: pray for lottery luck, a top 3 pick. Step 4: hire a coach with clear vision, roles. Step 5: Pick up young players with clear roles in mind. This is either a now or later plan. Its also a sooner the better plan.
J C says
Ko
How about an over-under now on how many days before before Byron gets the axe?
I think it should happen by Monday Nov 30th.
Anonymous says
I wonder if Jeanie and Jim spend Thanksgiving together. Lots to talk about around that dinner table.
The Blackest Mamba says
“Catering too much to what Kobe is good at or how to maximize him specifically should not be any more of a priority than trying to do the same for Randle, Clarkson, or Russell.”
Truer words have never been spoken.
There’s no excuse for shooting 31% and 20% overall and from 3 respectively. I hate to see this decline but Kobe just needs to accept that he just doesn’t have it any more.
Last season before he got injured again, he was playing bad but not this bad. This is historically bad. And those other guys have actually been playing really well. We need to stop focusing on Kobe now.
KO says
JC
Brought it up with xxxxxxxx name withheld for obvoius reasons and got a dirty look.
Was going to ask if BS had a business card that said Bryon Scott Professional Tanker but didn’t want to lose my cigar privileges.
It would take a 2 and 30 and strong boos by fans at Staples. Problem is most season ticket holders are selling their game seats so seats are filled like at Oscars with fillers.
Better chance that Mr. 1 for 14 quits then BS. Which if course is BS.
bluehill says
rr – I agree with your earlier post and have mostly been patient/biting my tongue because I realize management was pursuing competing goals and “this is what rebuilding looks like.” But sometimes the id takes over says WTF. 😉
Robert says
Laker things to be thankful for:
31 Trips to the Finals, 16 NBA Titles, Summer of 2017
Happy Thanksgiving
rr says
SB Nation’s Tom Ziller wrote an article about them. The article title says it all: ‘The only way to save Kobe Bryant from himself is to play him less’
The article ends with: “This — putting a limit on Kobe — is a new concept for the Lakers and Scott, but it’s the only reasonable solution to prevent this from spiraling fully into farce … if we aren’t already there.’
—
If anybody knows about farces, it is Tom Ziller: he is a hardcore, life-long Sacramento Kings fan.
sam says
i had a very good dream last night, so first thing i did this morning (Hong Kong Time) was to check out what the ESPN headline was…
disappointed to NOT see “Lakers part way with Head Coach Bryon Scott”…
happy thanksgiving to everyone that’s states-side! happy weekend and fill yourself with turkey and stuffin’~!!
KO says
Sorry Sam but we had our fill of Turkey’s.
Dressed in purple and gold.
BlizzardOfOz says
Are Laker fans actually turning on Kobe, or is it just the usual crowd being extra vocal, while the rest of us are just depressed? Weird to see a Lakers forum looking like a discussion between Bill Simmons and Henry Abbott.
Joe Houston says
No NBA guard has ever played 20 seasons.
rr says
Blizzard-
Some of both. If Kobe had retired, and the Lakers were 4-10 playing young guys and the coach were a guy like Darren Erman or David Fizdale, people would be a lot calmer. Another problem is that in preseason a lot of people were talking about the team being “interesting” and “watchable” and the perception right now is that Byron and Kobe are making the team an unwatchable embarrassment, with the national TV shellacking by GSW drawing a line under that.
They play the 76ers in Philly on Tuesday. If they lose that and are 2-15, then I think the FO will probably call it a day on Byron.
Drrayeye says
Kobe’s only remaining choice is is how and when to retire. I’d like to believe that “how and when” is being discussed right now, but I doubt it.
The next natural time to announce his withdrawal from competition in the NBA would be end of season. The most dignified time to announce his retirement would be before the start of the next game–this Saturday.
bleedpurplegold says
I understand people blaming byron for a bad start, i also understand them wanting him fired….but via twitter?!?! How dare you disrespecting a loyal member of the laker familiy who has done so much for this franchise….reading stuff like that on a laker board is as sad as it gets….
By the way: great read darius, good to see you putting up stuff like that despite the team being that bad….has to be really hard to write stuff on a nearly daily basis when the team sucks and you just want a break sometime…..really respect your passion and patience
George Best says
I love Kobe but he’s mentally ill. He does not get that is no longer an NBA player for more than a few minutes a game at best. I’ll bet he will want to play next year thats how bad his illness has become. It’s sad because it’s injuries that got him rather than a slow decline.
This team just needs to lose them all and get the top pick.
The 76ers will finish with a better record. That’s how bad things are
Shaun says
wasnt kobe an assist away from a triple double a week ago …. guy is not as finished as everyone is stating … one bad game … and an offensive scheme that is working poorly for everyone on the team
see his quote about bigger problems, youngs quote on offensive identity … it really does come down to coaching and scott has lost his locker rooms in each stint hes been at and it looks like things are headed that way now in lakerland so he probably does not finish the year especially if the FO listens to what the players are saying …..please no future princeton coach, luke could actually be an interesting hire if not thibs
we have legit nba players in kobe,williams hibbert, bass, randle,artest and clarkson who would all be in the rotation on other nba teams ….they are just being used very poorly + we are pushing it starting 3ish rookies at once …. russel should come off the bench and artest should he starting at sf
but if the stealth tank is in and we are pulling a sonics via 3 lottery picks and lucking out on another pick in clarkson hopefully things pick up in 2-3 years with another extended run
bleedpurplegold says
I understand people blaming byron for a bad start, i also understand them wanting him fired….but via twitter?!?! How dare someone disrespecting a loyal member of laker family, whom we have so much to thank for…i get that some think like he is a bad coach for this unit, but you cannot disrespect someone with that many merits in and for this franchise the way it happens to be here on this board the last couple of weeks…
Calvin says
Agree with Shaun. Lakers have legit NBA players to be competitive, but are being used poorly. Mitch and Jim have 2 options – fire Byron, get a coach who will limit Kobe’s minutes and play and develop the rookies, or retain Byron, keep the status quo, tank and hope for luck to get Ben Simmons. Yes, he’s a once in a generation player like Lebron. Size, coordination, skill, athleticism and vision – he will be a game-changer in the NBA.
Hale says
I caught myself checking the score of the Infinite Tankers vs the Dirty Green Lepers yesterday. Next results I looked for were The Nets. These last few seasons are instilling terrible habits with limited prospects for change.
Cosign every post by Shaun and RR this thread.
BigCitySid says
– Happy Thanksgiving to all.
– Glad to see fewer and fewer posters here are fantasizing about Mr “I Eat 1st”.
– Still amazed at how many feel Scott is the blame for Kobe being Kobe. Scott’s working on direct orders from the Buss family to let Kobe do whatever he wants to do.
– ONLY way this changes: DAR takes control of the ball, regardless of what Scott says. What are they going to do, bench him, trade him, no. Russell, please take over…now. Things can’t get any worse.
Anonymous says
Darius,
Great post! I appreciate your (as per usual) reasoned parsing of these latest Lakers factoids. These items we as fans scour for clues and (hopefully) insights into the Great Mystery, that seemingly impenetrable Black Box Op we know simply as the Lakers.
“What are they thinking/doing?”, “What is HE saying now?”, “Get the pitchforks and torches……but who are we burning?”, etc…..
So, given our current dire situation, I’m all for contextualization and if neccessary, rationalism (tough times call for tough measures). But this comment perplexed me the other night, and is still buggin’ a little:
Kobe: “I could be out there averaging 35 points per game. We’ll be what, 3-11?”
Umm, quick question Kobe: How many minutes, possessions, and shots would this entail given your current level of production?
The “80 pts” statement I can certainly see that Kobe could’ve been using hyperbole/conjecture to refer to what he sees as a bigger, systemic issue. I think we (i.e., Lakers’ fans who follow the team’s activities perhaps a bit more closely than the casual fan) all could agree that there are many foul things afoot these days.
And then there’s the old axiom “The fish rots from the head down”…
Ahh, no matter. This is all chump change compared to Thanksgiving Day I spoze (tho’ I am a hardcore fan, heh heh).
Darius, I’ve been a regular (religious?) reader here since Mr. Helin manned the helm and you were but a wee lad writing up the pre-games. I think you’ve been doing a great job all these years. I left LA six years ago, and this blog is my Laker lifeline/water cooler of sorts, so I am grateful FB&G exists. Have a nice holiday everyone!
KevTheBold says
BigCitySid – agree totally !
Killing two birds with one stone:
Preserving a still brave, yet battle ravaged warrior’s legacy for him, by taking his blade, and passing it to the one who is meant to replace him.
Sometimes, respect is most generously demonstrated, by protecting someone against their own inner demons or delusions.
It’s also time for us all to see if our chosen one has the right tools and temperment, to take over.
I for one, believe he does.
KevTheBold says
Oh, and Happy Turkey Day to us All !
bluehill says
Happy Thanksgiving to all! I’m thankful for a lot including having seen the Lakers win so many chips.
KO says
Happy day for all the smartest Lakers fans anywhere. Jimmy should let us run the team.
Sid yes and no. That was a condition of Bryons hire. Let Kobe do it Frank style. “My way!” Thats why they hired a guy with a losing record.
Hoping they let Mitch gets a voice again and he sheds the wasted players. No reason on a terrible team to have Young, Bass, Sacre, Kelly. Metta. Bring up D League team and try to pick up some draft spots.
Funny how Knicks, Celtics, Utah, Orlando were able to rebuild to being competitive. While our hourse trainer made us worse.
Guess being the head of a trust is the true example of a oxymoron.
Have a nice one out there. Keep posting. Believe it or not the coach and front office read this site.
Drink wine, smoke a cigar and forget about basketball for a day!
Clay Bertrand says
No Negativity from me today……I gotta get on the road!!!
Happy Thanksgiving to all of my friends of misery here!!!
To echo what some have posted, I HIGHLY recommend the HBO documentary:
“Kareem: Minority of One”
Kareem was largely before my time but I was able to catch the end of his career. Guy played with BOTH Oscar Robertson AND Magic Johnson and Kareem was freaking AMAZING.
Hey Desmo, that story about Kareem playing at Palomar was great. I’m a Palomar “Alum” (Don’t know if people really say that about Junior Colleges!!!) and had just watched the documentary this week.
Again GOBBLE GOBBLE my good people!!! Drive safe!!!!
rr says
Bleed-
Robert was being sarcastic about firing Byron on Twitter and making an indirect reference to the handling of the D’Antoni hire.
Kev-
Like I said above, Kobe’s legacy is immense and what is going on now won’t really affect it—except in the eyes of people who couldn’t stand him anyway. Rings/medals/scoring list/HoF/jerseys-rafters/statue will be his legacy. 2015, like 1973 for Willie Mays and 1980 for Muhammad Ali, will be like a little smudge on a huge oil painting. The guy whose legacy is on the line with this situation isn’t Kobe, or Mitch, or even Byron (Byron doesn’t really have a legacy as a coach anyway)—it’s Jim Buss.
Calvin,
Like I said in preseason, there was no reason to believe that the Lakers were better than any one of the other 14 teams in the West—not a single one. Kobe and Byron are in fact making it worse, now, I think, but it would still be true even with a coach everybody liked and Williams, Young and Russell splitting up KB’s minutes. The Lakers just don’t have any guys who are really good NBA players right now.
Todd says
The guy whose legacy is on the line with this situation isn’t Kobe, or Mitch, or even Byron (Byron doesn’t really have a legacy as a coach anyway)—it’s Jim Buss.
—-
Excellent post — always appreciate your insight.
Calvin says
RR – I disagree about the Lakers being talentless and worst team of the West. They finally have a good rim-protector in Roy, an explosive penetrating guard in Clarkson, and still a good closer in Kobe. They’re just not being used in the correct way.
Look at the Mavs- they seem to have a worse roster than Lakers, but they’re still competing with the likes of Raymond Felton, Charlie Villanueva, washed up D-Will, old Dirk. They might just end up in the playoffs. If I were the coach, I’d start Clarkson, DAR, Tarik, Hibbert, Artest and employ what Stan Van Gundy is doing at Detroit. My main play on offense is to run the high pick and roll with Clarkson and Hibbert, with DAR and Artest on the wing 3 for spacing, and Tarik for backdoor cuts. Clarkson has the speed and handles to use the Hibbert pick and attack. Hibbert is actually a good pop option with a reliable set 18fter. DAR can also run the high pick and roll. Then Kobe comes in with 4 mins left in the first quarter and plays just 8 minutes. Same in the 2nd half. But in the last 4 minutes of the 4th quarter, fresh Kobe comes in to finish the game. There are other variations and options to run with Randle, Lou, maybe Nick, but I think that having Clarkson run that high pick and roll at top of the key with Hibbert and good spacing will be a good plan for offense.
Late in the game, put Kobe in, have Clarkson run a pick and roll with Kobe to force the switch, then dump the ball to Kobe. Kobe can back the smaller defender down and draw the double-team, or shoot a 15ft jumper over a shorter defender.
KevTheBold says
rr, you could be right about Kobe’s legacy, yet his farewell tour video will require extensive editing.
As for Jim, he has yet to generate a resume, let alone a legacy. However, I know what you’re saying.
John Barber says
I’ve been a long time Laker fan and the last 3 years have been disheartening to watch with bad selection of coaches and free agents and signing Kobe to a 2 yr 48M contract. Somewhere in the FO is a number of playbooks written by Bill Sharman and Jerry West on how to build a championship team. Some of the content in this playbook is to choose a coach who teaches a disciplined offense and defense for young draft picks alike, choosing young promising veterans such as Jamaal Wilkes and Cedric Caballos, and assign them roles. One book dates back to 1977 when Jerry West was a coach, one in 1980, and one in 1995. Instead, the FO signed Howard, who doesnt know how to win, Nash, who was finished, Swaggy who refers to himself in 3rd person, and Williams et al. They signed failing retread coaches, and I’m disappointed in Byron. He’s terrible. This is what they should have done in 2015–signed Tobias Harris instead of pursuing Aldridge, who wanted to play for a winner, find an athletic defensive oriented SG and SF, signed a young althetic flyswatter (like Whiteside), sign Gerald Green (he had two triple doubles and his high flying ability has Showtime written all over it) Hey, didnt Brown cut him? He would have come cheaper than Young and Williams. WAtch the D League team and bring up the youngsters in January. And hire a coach who can define roles for them and limit Kobe’s role.