One of the benefits of playing 55 games before the All-Star game is the Lakers getting an extended break by not having to play a game again until Friday. All of that extra rest has its pluses and minuses, but I’ll happily trade a bit of rust and the potential for a small dip in conditioning for all the guys getting some needed time off to refresh their bodies and minds as they head into the closing push.
Not playing until Friday also means another thing: the Lakers’ front office heads into Thursday’s trade deadline with nothing on their plate but managing the phones and trying to figure out if (and, if so, how) any deals would be available to them. There are no games to navigate, no “holding a player out” as a signal that he may be on the block. No, the players will return to practice (today, I am guessing), and the FO will be working the phones.
We all know what the Lakers would like to do heading into Thursday. They have a slew of veteran players, of varying ability, who they would like to trade. The rumors have been out there for weeks — that the team would like to find Roy Hibbert a playoff team to play for while also making Lou Williams, Brandon Bass, and Nick Young available. However, just because the Lakers would like to make deals doesn’t mean they will.
With that here is how I view the market for each player:
- Hibbert: I don’t see a strong market for Roy developing. While a good locker room guy and still a plus rim protector, the Lakers have seen first hand what the Pacers did last year: the more fast paced, pick and roll oriented game does not fit Roy’s style of play. This has made him a drag on offense and without the wing defenders to protect him against full speed drives into his chest, his defense has not be as impactful either. He is an expiring contract and if the Lakers are willing to take on a longer deal in a swap, they may find a taker. But the Lakers want a clean cap next year and taking back any long term money likely is a nonstarter. In an ideal world the Lakers swap Roy for a large expiring contract and/or a young player or pick in the upcoming draft. I doubt that materializes.
- Williams: Lou has proven he can be a viable contributor for a winning team. He did it in Toronto last season and with the Hawks before that. His contract is reasonable for the next two seasons and a slew of mid-tier teams who need wing scoring would do well to have him on their roster. Would another team bite? My guess is no and that is based on what I believe the Lakers want in return — either a 1st round pick or a young player on a reasonable contract who can be a part of the team’s core moving forward. For all the ways that Lou helps a team, I simply doubt a team is willing to give up that type of asset for him.
- Bass: Of all the Lakers’ vets, Bass is the one who I think is most likely to be moved. The team has several bigs who could use playing time, Bass is cheap enough where the Lakers would not be making any sort of financial commitment by bringing on a like-salaried player, and Bass is still a very good rotation player who does a lot of things which help win games. However, Bass’ player option clouds this issue. Trading for him now means acquiring a potential rental which hurts the return the Lakers might be able to expect if his contract for next season was guaranteed or, better, was a team option. A team might, after swallowing hard, trade a late first round pick (maybe with protections attached) for Bass if he were locked up for next season. As a rental, maybe they think twice and hold off. I’d imagine Bass’ status will be a question all the way up until the trade deadline.
- Young: I do not expect Young to be moved. It’s not that the money owed to him is so outlandish it is that the money plus the player option on the end of his deal makes him overpaid and in the driver’s seat for the last year of his deal. Also, Young hasn’t played well since Mike D’Antoni skipped town. You can blame whoever you want for that, but when opposing GM’s look at his production, they’re going to want an asset with Young to take on his deal, not wanting to offer anything of value back in an exchange.
Sorry to be your Lakers’ trade deadline wet blanket, but I just don’t see a lot happening with any of their veteran players. Now, if the team were willing to package one or more of their “core” youngsters to help facilitate a deal, I would imagine the likelihood of a deal happening goes up. But the Lakers have not indicated — even quietly — that they are really doing anything but taking other team’s temperatures in order to gauge value. This doesn’t rule out a deal, but it makes it unlikely.
In saying all that, I hope the Lakers remain active in trying to reshape their roster by Thursday. Williams and Bass are movable pieces if the Lakers are willing to take back less than their ideal package. Hibbert and Young are less movable, but that doesn’t mean it is impossible, just not likely.
Still, the team would do well to try and grease the skids to get some of their younger players more minutes over the last 25+ games and the best way to do that is to move some of the veterans standing in their way. If that gets them an asset or two in the process, all the better.
Nik Kannan says
Hibbert and young to Memphis for Green, Wright, Jordan Adams, and j. Martin – http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jmo979r
Any of yall think feasible?
Nik Kannan says
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j9v7hyy
Not sure j. Martin can be traded due to broken leg…
Hibbert and Young for Wright, Green, Jordan Adams and Ennis…. Green is an expiring contract with potential for re-sign, wright is a basic swap for young (same contract) and then we get Adams 2014 1st round pick from UCLA…
Nik Kannan says
Anyone come up with a trade to acquire Morris? I can’t find one without giving up any of the young core.
Macdamayor says
Robert Sacre and Brandon Bass or second round pick(2016)
Sun need a legit power forward in return and depth at center. Any combination of Robert Sacre, Brandon Bass, And 2016 pick might do it. They may like Ryan Kelly as a stretch 4/5. Any two for one would be suffient. I’m tired of the league devaluing Lakers players because of the win column.
bluehill says
Let’s hope there are a few teams in win now mode that Mitch can take advantage of. Given our record, Mitch probably doesn’t have a lot of pressure to make a deal just to be active, so he can wait to see if someone will be willing to deal. Also the impeding increase in the salary cap is a complicating factor which could cause some teams to feel that they need to show their star players their willingness to spend money to compete.
I would hold out the most for Lou since his contract has two more years and gives Mitch the option of trading him next year.
As noted, Bass’ contract isn’t as favorable, but his skill set seems more valuable in a league shifting to more versatile centers. Some playoff team thinking about the Warriors may want to beef up their bench with this in mind.
Nick would depend on the offers. We know what he is and since the team is likely to change next year in terms of players and system there could be some value in holding on to him unless there’s a compelling offer on the table. Probably not likely.
As for Hibbert, also a long shot but maybe Mitch could get a second rounder a few years down the road and pay some cash (not sure if that would work from a salary cap perspective).
Wouldn’t be surprised if nothing happens by the trade deadline, but hoping we find a desperate buyer.
Anonymous says
Honestly, I would not want to take back a player that moves the needle this year. I’m fine with coasting in and keeping the top 3 pick. If you read the comments in the ;last thread keeping the pick really elevates the Lakers in terms of how attractive this gig is to good/great coaches. When you have a young team the right coach can make all the difference.
If possible, I’d try and get a player that can develop with the core (Russell/Randle/Clarkson). I’d even trade Nance if it brought back another core piece. Bass/Nance/Black may get you a) Kelly Oubre (Wizards have young talent in front of him at the Two and Three) or, b) Devin Booker (Klay Thompson clone — downside: moves Clarkson the bench) or c) Bobby Portis (I’d play him at the Five).
I know that each of those thoughts may be a reach but that’s the type of deal I’d make. I want another young core piece to build on. Truth be told our core in 2 or 3 years away. I don’t want Rudy Gay — a vet who has topped out and in tow years will be on his downside and becomes dead weight right when the kids are just getting good.
George Best says
Id put all those guys in a package if it would net a second round pick. Then bring up the DLeague guys and lets give our team the best chance at Simmons
Guilherme says
I have some nick young trades ideas what u guys think
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=gu3udru (plus 2nd round to Wizards)
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mv3tddv
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nhwcoz7 (plus 2nd round pick to blazers)
Another Sick trade for the lakers
Hibbert and young to Memphis for Jeff Green B. Wright and Matt Barnes
Anonymous says
I’d even trade Nance if it brought back another core piece. Bass/Nance/Black may get you a) Kelly Oubre (Wizards have young talent in front of him at the Two and Three) or, b) Devin Booker (Klay Thompson clone — downside: moves Clarkson the bench) or c) Bobby Portis (I’d play him at the Five).
__
While I agree with your basic premise: keep the pick and add a young core piece — it’s not that easy in reality. Teams tend to over value their players – especially the young ones. I don’t think the Lakers have sufficient assets to make any of those proposed moves. Additionally, even if you were open to moving Nance his injury happened at the worst time — as he’s not on the floor right now.
I was hoping the Lakers would trade down to get any of those kids (Oubre/Booker/Portis) in the most recent draft. I am a self admitted draft junkie so I know about most of the kids that were drafted in the 1st round. I think Booker and Portis are off the table — they are that good and the Suns and Bulls are’t trading them without getting a star back in return.
However, Oubre has been up and down so the Wizards may see Nance as a more useful piece. Porter (aged 22) blocks him at the Three and Beal (aged 22) blocks him at the Two. Plus, the Wizards do have a need at the Four.
FYI, Oubre has a longer wingspan than Nance — so he has the potential to become a very nice wing defender. He has handles and NBA 3pt range. He can play the Two/Three so you can keep Clarkson at the Two and slot him in as your SF. Or, if you draft Ingram, you can move Oubre into a Michael Cooper role off the bench or if he develops (only 20) he may make Clarkson expendable in trade for another needed piece down the road.
OK, you convinced me, my trade target is Kelly Oubre.
BigCitySid says
– Wet blanket indeed. Like every Laker fan, I’m hoping they can hold onto their top 3 protected pick. Regardless of that, I’d like to see the Lakers make a move INSURING them of a top 10 pick (hopefully in addition to their top 3 protected).
I was hoping they could partner w/ a team w/ a promising young and talented core looking for solid, inexpensive, productive vets with leadership qualities. Placing a higher value on that type of player than adding another rookie to their team. I’m thinking T’Wolves.
-Question, would the T’Wolves see more value in 31 year old Bass than this year’s 5th (currently) overall draft pick, Jaylen Brown?
Nik Kannan says
Guilherme,
I like your grizz trade except lets get a young guy in return if we are going to make trades, replace barnes with a Jordan Adams and a throw away… then we might have something.
Dudley is way better than Nick Young, that is a easy deal if Washington would take young back.
I like Waiters way better too!!
Guilherme says
Nik,
I like the trades I mentioned because of the expiring contracts, more money for the summer.
Plus in the memphis deal, Wright its a pretty decent PF/C
bluehill says
I admittedly am not familiar with Oubre, but I like the thinking you guys laid out. It fits with the young-guys-with-potential-but-languishing-on-the-bench approach that I’m hoping Mitch is pursuing. Washington is on the playoff bubble, but I’m not sure how much they are willing to push to make the playoffs, although there’s rumors they would consider trading for Dwight, which if true would suggest they are pretty desperate.
Anonymous says
From Lowe’s ESPN Trade Deadline piece. He mentions Oubre as a target for the Pelicans in a Ryan Anderson deal:
The Wiz are also a natural Anderson trade partner; John Wall would get him all the open 3s he could eat, and Washington has a readymade trade package in the Kris Humphries/Kelly Oubre combo. Oubre’s an intriguing young player at a position of need; the Pelicans aren’t doing much better than that. Washington is reluctant to trade Oubre, but he’s barely playing, and the status quo hasn’t worked.
__
If the Wizards would really part with Oubre then I’d gladly offer Nance. To me if you’re casting your lot with Randle (which the Lakers appear to be doing) then Nance is just a rotation piece. Oubre has a chance to starter or the first player off the bench. Higher upside than Nance as well.
Gene says
I would say that Hibbert isn’t even a rim protector anymore…He isn’t a very good player at all….
Darius Soriano says
Gene,
I tend to think that Hibbert needs more protection on the perimeter than he used to. So, he can no longer anchor a defense, but I do believe he can still be part of a defense in the top 10. There are many centers in the NBA who you cannot say that about, so in that respect I think he’s a fine defensive option. Just not the guy he once was.
changes says
Lou Williams is a good 6th man for the Lakers. He is being abused right now as a starter, he isn’t that and his defense is barely noticeable. His trade value is with a team currently ranked in the top 15, ie a contender for a playoff team, with weak 2ed unit production. Lakers need a 1st rnd pick in return though. Got to get value, otherwise he anchors the 2ed unit next season, all season.
As for the rest of the guys? Its not a concern whether they are traded or not.Won’t make a difference to the team this year or next.
Anonymous says
I expect this Sam character above to be traded for some saltines. Dude sounds a bit bitter.
Fern says
Sid , insuring a top ten pick seems like a really really long stretch, why would a team that isn’t going to make the playoffs and have a top ten pick would want to trade with us? They wont want our vets, our vets can do what you propose here instead of elsewhere if we can’t find a deal for any of them.I mean why in God’s Green Earth would the Wolves would want a player like Bass? its pointless for them, if we get a pick in a trade for him, best case scenario? a late 1st rounder because that’s the kind of teams that could be interested on trading for a vet like Bass. And that would be fine by me…
Chibi says
Bass for Bebe Nogueira & Anthony Bennett.
Robert says
Hibbert/Williams: So if we do not get anything for these guys (as predicted above – and I agree with), then why did we sign these guys again? They are not helping us win. And please do not mention minimum salary as that has been hashed out dozens of times. Bottom line – we either obtained these guys to help us win (is not working) or we obtained them for trade bait (we will see). In any case – we did not do very much in the last off season in spite of me reading a bunch of stuff about how good these signings were on a number of blogs. Oh – and Nick Young – I think my views are known on that – but why did we sign him again to have him play for Byron? So here we are at the deadline – the FO needs to do something to undo this mess they have created.
Anonymous says
Robert – This is why Jeanie needs to ask Jim and possibly Mitch to step down. The comments we heard about ‘turning the corner’ and possibly making the playoffs were reflective of the FO true beliefs.
Either these guys are so far over their heads that the team is performing several orders of magnitude below expectations or they were blowing smoke big time. If it was smoke and mirrors then they forgot to clue Jeanie in. She has stated in interviews that she believed what ‘our FO’ said. And like many of us she’s wondering what Jim and Mitch have been doing for the past three years other that winning games at a .270 (cumulative) pace.
J C says
I think it’s obvious.
Management thought a nice mix of young, up and coming players along with Kobe and a few veterans could compete.
To think they entered the season with tanking in mind is giving them too much credit.
Where they missed was:
1. Underestimating length of time it would take for rookies to acclimate to the nba level,
2. Overestimating the effectiveness of Williams, Bass and especially Hibbert, and
3. Totally overestimating Byron’s coaching abilities, or more precisely, UNDERestimating the disastrous effect his astonishing incompetence would have on the win-loss record.
Luckily for the team it hasn’t affected ticket sales since the team has deftly shifted attention to Kobe’s farewell – for now.
I doubt anyone takes Hibbert or Young off our hands.
Regarding Williams, it may be nice to hang onto him for next year.
If we can improve the team enough to compete, he’d still be a very nice piece as a scorer off the bench with one job: shoot.
rr says
UNDERestimating the disastrous effect his astonishing incompetence would have on the win-loss record.
—
This may be the case, but there is no way to know for sure. Like I said in preseason, focusing on Byron allows people to avoid the more unsavory possibilities that the young guys aren’t that great and that the FO doesn’t know what it’s doing. You’re presuming that the team would have had a significantly better record with another guy. They might have, but we’ll never really know. It’s a hypothetical.
Gene says
Howard on this team next season would be interesting.He is still a rebounder and a rim protector.Howard…Randle….Nance…Clarkson….Russell.A good starting 5….If only Howard wasn’t a head case…
rr says
Also, like I said in preseason as well, I think a lot of Lakers fans overrated the roster. That said, Byron needs to go.
Mid-Wilshire says
J C,
I agree. I think the Lakers want to hold on to Lou Williams, at least for a while. After Kobe’s departure, they’ll need a designated scorer, someone they can turn to when they suddenly need points. He’s not the perfect solution. But he fills a (forthcoming) role.
As a result, the one player who might possibly be moved in the near future (not definitely but possibly) is Brandon Bass. If he goes to a contender, the Lakers will ask for a late 1st round pick. If he goes to a struggling team, they might settle for a high 2nd round pick. If the price is too high, Bass stays. But I’ll be surprised if the Lakers aren’t shopping him right now.
As for Swaggy and Hibbert, I see no demand. There might have been some demand for Hibbert 6 months ago, but not any more. That ship has sailed.
Marques says
Sell high on Clarkson, if you believe Russell can carry the franchise no need for him to share touches with clarkson, see if there is a 3 and D guy to be had.
The rest of the roster get whatever you can, which is likely nothing, maybe a pick for Bass, but more than likely we have what we have.
By all means though, please cut Sacre.
rr says
Howard coming back to the Lakers?
KO says
Wow JC you figured all that out?
Could have said it all one sentence.
The Buss kids(both in their 50’s) are the most clueless owners in NBA history. Managed to set back a decade a great franchise in only 3 years.
Stefan neumann says
I agree that the trade market at the deadline does not look great for the Lakers this year. Our only real assets that I could see other teams wanting are Lou Williams and Brandon Bass. Forget trading Nick Young, and honestly if we get a new coach next year the last two years of his deal might end up being a bargain if his play picks back up. I personally think that we should trade Brandon Bass even for a marginal return simply because of the increased playing time it will give to Randle, Nance, and Black. If we can get a pick or young player for Lou Williams of course we do the deal, but honestly he can be moved during the offseason or next year. Besides that I’m afraid the team will have to just stay as constructed for the rest of the year which isn’t so bad if we get a good draft pick this year.
Stefan Neumann
Freeman Business School Class of 2017
Tulane University
AusPhil says
You can’t really “sell high” on Clarkson unless you mean picks. That low salary won’t bring much back.
J C says
Rr
I do agree that it’s tricky to identify whether our talent is a bit weak, or the coaching is just that awful.
In my opinion the way the team runs its sets, with so many isos, plays such lackluster and disorganized defense, combined with Byron’s substitution patterns and simple-minded public comments, lead me to believe that a good/different coach will be required to succeed here.
…And the fact that our new players really show flashes of promise yet seem to be struggling.
Ko,
That’s three sentences. Can’t help it, sometimes I’m long-winded.
Anonymous says
Would like your thoughts on this trade:
DET receives: Lou Williams
LAL receives: S. Blake, KCP
DET gets a scorer to help their playoff push, LAL gets a 3 & D prospect
Edmond Dantes says
Anonymous i like it. Wish Blake had resigned here anyways and KCP is another dangerous guy who would be off the bench but he’s young and a poor man’s Will Barton but with defense. Think its a great trade too because one of the Lakers problems is they have too many scorers. Clarkson Bryant Williams Randle Young all are shoot first guy’s with Clarkson and Randle improving thier passing as the season has gone on. Blake would fit because hes a pass first guy who can hit the 3 and despite being a vet won’t cost much especially coming off the bench.
Anonymous says
Thanks, Edmond. This trade would allow Russell to start again plus have a mentor in Blake while adding another prospect.
Fern says
The team is not good but not bad enough to have this record. There have been like 5 or 6 games against lesser teams that we have blown leads. Getting blown out against beatable teams and all that. I believe the Lakers should have 17-18 wins by now. Bad team worse coach. A good even a decent coach would try to mazimize the strenght and weaknesses of the talent available and adjust accordingly. Byron is set on his way come hell and high water…
George Best says
This board is dillusional. We dont have a single asset that we are willing to move that anyone wants that will bring us an asset back. Its like back we think we are back in the late 70s and the other GMs are Ted Stepien. Those days are gone folks.
KevTheBold says
I believe there is suffcient evidence that our core has the talent.
It’s however being mismanaged, miscast, and last but not least, lost in this menagerie of the farewell tour.
The rising star game is only one shining example.
If we can hold on to them, accentuate their unique talents, coach them properly, and build around them, our future is bright.
Darius Soriano says
Fans of this team don’t want to trade any of their young core players, but Detroit is going to give up one of theirs — a former lottery pick who has dynamic defensive potential — for Lou Williams? Not to pick on anyone, but this is why we don’t allow trade speculation in the comments. Fans consistently overrate their own players and then act as though GM’s of other teams see things the same way as Lakers’ fans. It just doesn’t work that way.
JeffT says
It would sure be nice if we knew whether we would keep our pick or not before the trade deadline. I think our strategy related to our vets and young players would change if we knew we were going to lose our pick. Think about it, no Kobe, likely no Hibbert, and no new rookie, would greatly change the outlook and needs of this team.
Fern says
Right on Darius, same as thinking other lottery bound teams would give up a top 10 pick for a veteran because of the “mentor” role they could assume. It’s ludicrous. Like i said before, best case scenario? a late late 1st rounder IF a contending team really really really want one of our vets. Other teams would looove to get their hands on our kids for peanuts. Jabary for Russell is dumb in so many levels. Yeah let’s trade our number two pick for another former #2 pick that already blow his knee. All this talk about BS stunting and damaging this kid is just that B*S* It only takes a coaching change and give credit to these kids they are not as weak minded as some people here believe, give them some credit…
Gary says
Darius: I read all of the posts above and I must say that I like the deal centered on Bass/Nance for Oubre. What are your thoughts on such a deal — is it reasonable in terms of value for both sides?
As for the Lakers it fills a glaring need a young wing with range. Brown is a back of the rotation guy while Oubre has a chance to be really good. Nance has a ceiling but Washington has enough offensive players and just needs the consistent floor chemistry that Nance brings (little offense but nice defense/rebounding).
It feels like a fit for both sides. Thoughts?
Darius Soriano says
Gary,
As I wrote above, Bass is essentially a rental. This lowers his value a fair amount. So, if beyond this year, you’re looking at it being a Nance/Oubre swap, you’re saying let’s trade 15th pick for the 27th pick from the same draft class. This doesn’t even take into account that Oubre came out after his freshman season and Nance came out after he was a senior so Nance is 3 years older than Oubre. Realistically, why would the Wizards do this?
Guilherme says
What you think DS.. I have 2 trades scenarios for you.
1) Lakers – Cavs
Lakers send: Lou Willians, Roy Hibbert, Randle and a second round pick
Cavs send: Love, and Shumpert
2) Lakers – Nets
Lakers send: Hibbert, (Young or Lou) and Randle plus second round
Nets send: Lopez and Karasev
Can you comment this trades?
R says
Gene, “if only Howard wasn’t a head case” … he wouldn’t be getting shopped right now.
R says
In fact those of us who hate the Celtics – all of us right? – should hope the Celtics end up with Dwight Coward. Thing of it is – Ainge is probably much too smart to fall for that.
matt says
Cleveland seems to have given alot for channing frye
matt says
Looks like nothings gonna happen
matt says
Lou williams has a budget contract, most likely not traded
matt says
Would like to see them make a move and end up with another pick, maybe draft ingram with our pick and diamond stone with an additional pick.