The Lakers made some waves — and received some scorn — for handing out some rich contracts to Timofey Mozgov and Luol Deng in the first two days of free agency. While there are plusses and minuses to each deal and on-court fit, there was still an open question of whether either contract could become a more team friendly one via the presence of team options for the 4th year of either deal.
Sam Amick of USA Today is reporting that is not the case for either contract.
Just checked on this, and…no options on Luol Deng's deal with the Lakers. Straight four years, $72 million. https://t.co/7iJjUpeUyr
— Sam Amick (@sam_amick) July 2, 2016
Since we're crossing contract Ts and dotting Is here: I'm told there are no options on Timofey Mozgov's Lakers deal https://t.co/TnpBJeDJ0x
— Sam Amick (@sam_amick) July 2, 2016
As I wrote when I looked at both deals, the main question for me regarding the contracts wasn’t necessarily the annual salary but the length of each deal. Four year contracts to players who are 30 (Mozgov turns 30 in July) and 31 (Deng turned 31 in April) will almost surely mean both players are underperforming their deals by their completion. This is no knock on either player, it is simply difficult for guys to keep up the level of play which earned them such deals into their mid-30’s.
It might still be the case that there are partial guarantees tied to the end of these contracts or that the structure of the payouts descends over time rather than ascends with yearly raises. These things are doubtful, but we will know more when the full details of the contracts become available.
That said, operating under the assumption these are straight 4 year contracts with full guarantees with yearly amounts which either remain flat or include annual raises, it is just further proof the Lakers had to structure these deals in a manner which favors the player. This should not be a surprise considering the state of the team. But just because it doesn’t surprise, doesn’t make it any better of an outcome.
The Lakers, ultimately, are not yet in a position to dictate terms to free agents and still get their targets. The hope is that this changes over time as the young core develops. Should they improve over time and become the players the team hopes they will, the on court product will be better and the prospect of winning becomes more a reality rather than a projection. Mozgov and Deng can aid in this process with their on court play and off-court guidance and leadership.
Time will tell if they can help enough to justify the Lakers’ full investment in them.
JR3233 says
Really, I don’t understand. Wouldn’t it be better non to sign anybody (or sign 1+1 life Afflalo) than mortgage the futurev with mediocre and aging players?
medias_res says
The biggest concern I have is that by the time the young guys are ready to win – probably 2 seasons from now – Deng and Mozgov will be geriatrics. They are not on the same timeline as the young players on the roster at all. I obviously have no idea but I really wonder if the Lakers’ FO did their due diligence on all the players available. Young veteran players such as Solomon Hill, who is 25 and a SF, and Biyombo, who is 23 (on ‘paper’) and a C would have made much more sense.
new rr says
Al Horford has signed with Boston. 4/113.
mattal says
For the Lakers FO to ignore the obvious downside of the Mozgov/Deng signings — as noted by many, what their contracts will look like two years from now — means that Jim/Mitch are prioritizing near term results. If this works out then they’ll deal with the downside later. If it doesn’t work out it will be someone else’s problem.
Not the reality that most Lakers fans want to acknowledge.
TempleOfJamesWorthy says
I think the Lakers were/are in a bit of a no-win situation.
–If they go for the big name free agents, they’re just going to get snubbed….and fans will complain.
–If they “keep their powder dry” and wait for the free agent frenzy to die down, there’s a good chance they’ll be stuck with having to overpay really mediocre talent (Nazr Mohammed anyone? How about Gustavo Ayon?) in order to meet the salary floor….and fans will complain.
–If they offer market-rate contracts to the free agents they CAN sign, they are forced by the exploding salary cap and the number of teams who MUST pay out some of their windfall to bend the boundaries of prudence, paying out too much money and/or too many years…and fans will complain.
–If they pay expensive/lengthy free agent deals to younger talent with “upside”, they may not get the necessary veterans needed to inculcate the young roster core with a winning NBA mindset, and if the “upside” doesn’t pan out, the Lakers will continue to suck (e.g. if the Lakers signed Biymobo instead of Mozgov, Biymobo’s offensive ineptitude could sink the team’s offense)…and fans will complain.
Basically, anything short of signing LeBron, Durant, and Horford to free agent deals meant fans were going to complain.
I’m mostly OK with the Lakers signing professional veteran talent that most likely will play reasonably well with the current young core. Durant and Westbrook are not coming through that door in 2017, and it’s going to be 3-4 years before the Lakers are sufficiently competitive that the next round of big-name free agents are eager to come to LA.
new rr says
TempleOfJamesWorthy
The point is to do what is best for the team and the org, and not worry about whether the fans complain, since fans always complain. The question is whether signing Deng and Mozgov is in fact the best path of those available. I have not seen a good case for it yet.
fern16 says
We are not mortaging anything in my opinion. Our young core are in rookie deals until 2020-21. And again, beggars can’t be choosers. Its like Templeof jamesworthy said. If we waited then we were going to miss out on talent like Mosgov and Deng not tue best but not the worst. Hortford got 114 million from tue Celtics which is nuts. And people prefered him over Mozgov is that the contract people here wanted? No right?. My gut feeling is that the Lakers are done with the 4 year contracts and will use the rest of the cap for shorter terms. Let’s not forget that the cap rises again next season and these contracts wont look as bad as some contracts are going to look next summer. Mitch said countless times that you can’t have too many rookies/young guys in a team. We have what? 6? 7? Like Darius and others pointed out we aren’t in a position to hard bargains with 17 wins to show for it. That’s the reality of it. It’s as simple as that…
fern16 says
And with contracts that could be moved by then.
new rr says
Durant may be in play for Boston now; he was trying to recruit fro Horford to OKC. And in this market, Horford’s deal is not “nuts.” Remember Horford was #1 on Darius’ list.
HaleHailHell says
Everyone on the team can’t be a baby. “On our timeline” is euphemism for daycare. Metta on the team is cool but he can’t really play anymore despite his bravado. 2 years from now, Ingram and others will have learned on court info that only observing someone who is better than you can provide. By the time, the “kids” are better (if), the older dudes will at least be coming off of the bench or never leaving it. 4 straight years is the new standard. Let’s call it the Luke Walton Memorial Contract. I’m feeling a bit Kapono-ed over Mosgov but there’s always going to be at least one LWMC on the Lakers books.
fern16 says
Yeah but in sure it wasn’t with a 28 million per season price tag.
Clay Bertrand says
I posted this sentiment in the last thread!!!! Life comes at ya pretty damn fast in the new format!!! : )
Anyway, Celts got Horford because they traded away the guys who gave them their ring when they became useless and started over three years ago while we continued to Kobe-Worship and prioritize him and his personal timeline over the team’s long term future.
When our nest is further along, we will attract the big Peacocks too!!! We gotta build/grow now.
Clay Bertrand says
Houston is going ALL IN on the MIKE D philosophy alright. Signing bombers with NO defensive conscience whatsoever with Ryan Anderson AND Eric Gordon to go with Harden and Co………Both guys shoot alot, get beat on D alot, and are injured ALOT!
LT Mitchell says
Temple,
Most fans knew that the Lakers had little chance at the elite free agents. Fans would have been happy if the team had signed a couple second tier players like Whiteside and Batum. After all, the front office publicly announced that their number one priority would be Whiteside before the start of free agency….. which gave many of us hope. The FO (along with many fans including myself) obviously grossly underestimated the appeal the Lakers have. How much more embarrassing can it get for Jimbo when your number one priority won’t even give you a meeting? I am one of Jimbo’s biggest critics and even I underestimated the amount of damage Jimbo has done to the Lakers brand. Despite lowering their standards from the elite (Aldridge, Carmelo) to the second tier free agents this summer, they still struck out for the third summer in a row….. and no Laker fan with any standards should be happy at this point. They couldn’t even get a meeting with many of the second and third tier free agents. The front office quickly realized that the only players that were willing to come here were aging vets with questionable health issues…. and these guys would have to be overpaid with lengthy contracts.
Fern said it best… beggers can’t be choosers….. and the once picky Lakers have become the biggest beggers in the league.
matt24 says
The 2 new players are not the sexiest signings, but i did not think we would get loul deng, i thought there would have been a high demand for him, and the asking price would be too much, before free agency a figured deng would go for 14-16 million and like 3 years, mosgov is a decent player too, but not as a solo center signed maybe a good backup, i figured him at around 13 million and a short term deal just to prove himself, they definitely have to go after another center here.
LT Mitchell says
Clay,
Are you still blaming Kobe? He is the reason the elite free agents at least gave the Lakers a meeting. Look at the respect the free agents are showing the Lakers without him this summer. It is clear that Kobe was not the reason the Lakers were unable to sign any quality players the last few years.
I can just imagine if Kobe were still on the team. You, Sid, Temple, and the rest of the Kobe haters would be blaming him for the Lakers inability to even get a meeting with many of the free agents, as well as being rejected by the likes Bazemore, Biyombo, etal.
matt24 says
Most of the good centers left are restricted.
Ezeli, leonard, plumlee, montiejunes, and sullinger
Then there’s former lakers gasol and jordan hill
matt24 says
We all just had wishful thinking, but reality is setting in, when you have 5 youngsters as role players, you can’t go out and sign more youngsters it doesn’t work like that
FredP says
The length of these contracts will work in the Lakers favor. If they were two year contracts, the players would be worrying about their next contract after next season. Just like Mozgov did last season. The Lakers never were going to be competitive as in make the playoffs next season. The core is too young and Walton has yet to instill his philosophies. Phil Jackson wanted two years to install the triangle and that was with established players. The Lakers of the past few years were dominated by veterans and never were’s on short term contracts. It did not look like that really inspired them. Walton needs time and players who are not worried about where they will be next season. The FO is taking a longer view of player development and we are just not used to seeing that.
Clay Bertrand says
LT Mitchell
I can’t see how you interpret me as “blaming Kobe.” Kobe signed a huge contract that was offered to him.
Clearly I am blaming the Front Office for prioritizing Kobe versus the long term future. If Kobe is the only reason the team got meetings with Melo or LMA, frankly they were courtesy meetings at best.
I presented two factual scenarios: Boston and the Lakers. Had the Lakers not resigned Kobe or had even traded him years back like Boston did, the rebuild would have more assets and it would have started years ago when Boston started theirs. We would be further along now and we would be a more desirable landing spot for Free Agents like Horford etc.
I’m not complaining about our free agent haul compared to Boston or any other team. I’m pointing out the reality that they are in a better position than we are because of the strategy they took and that free agents want to go to teams with more talented and more experienced rosters.
If you disagree, please present your case for why the way Kobe was dealt with was a more prudent long term play for the Lakers than how Paul Pierce and Garnett were dealt with in Boston.
Clay Bertrand says
LT Mitchell
Laker Exceptionalism?
aka mindcrime says
Liking the new format these past few days…
I’m reserving judgment on these signings for the moment. I realize this is the “gutless” approach, but I’m not ready to flame the FO for this yet.
That said, I did want to address one thing that seems to be floating around here and on other fora. There is a perception among some that these signings are a “tell” that personnel decisions are being made with Jimbo’s “timeline” in mind. I think there is an alternate explanation. The Lakers are not going to be contenders next year. In fact, if they made the playoffs it would be a minor miracle. That leaves the FO with two options:
1. Sign various flotsam and jetsam to get up to the salary floor, bottom out for an unprecedented third year in a row, hope for another lucky bounce of the ping pong balls, and roll over that cap space for yet another year; or
2. Spend some money, increase the overall team talent, and show some signs that the team is improving.
Path number one is not without merit–but it probably makes the team very unattractive to the pool of FA’s in 2017, which we know is going to be better than this year’s by default.
Path number two is just as “meh” as the first from a fan satisfaction standpoint, but it at least presents the possibility of snagging a higher-tier FA or two next summer. In addition, I think the FO would like to see Luke’s first season be markedly better than Scott’s last couple of years. In sum, I think the FO doesn’t think a third putrid year is tolerable, needs to see the excitement associated with Luke coming aboard vindicated, and needs to build on the promise of a shiny new #2 overall pick that many thought was better than the guy that went number one, even if the team fails to make the playoffs this year. Of course, path number two only comes to fruition if the “young core” we keep talking about takes some significant steps forward this year–which is a pretty big and uncertain if right now.
All of that said–even an aging Deng is a big improvement over what Kobe was last year, and I think Mosgov could surprise if utilized the right way.
Clay Bertrand says
aka mindcrime
Well reasoned. Get Busy Livin’ or Get Busy Dyin’…..
It’s gonna be fun and interesting to follow the growth of this whole team.
_ Robert _ says
I can buy the incremental improvement approach, but that approach does not justify 4 year contracts for two 30+ guys. No team options, Mosgov has some durability questions, he saw little action in the Finals, and I fail to see how either of this guys helps the youth movement. Before the signings, these guys were not exactly being talked about much here or on any other Laker boards. I did not ever put any stock in the Durant pipedream, and I said multiple times that I would be fine if we did very little in FA. This is why I would have been fine with very little. I was afraid of deals we would regret later.
I just did not think we would regret them so quickly.
matt24 says
Lakers lineup
Starting
Pg russell
Sg clarkson
Sf deng
Pf Randle
C mosgov
Bench
Pg Huertas
Sg lou williams
Sf ingram
Pf nance jr
C black
Reserves
Sg jabari brown
Sf anthony brown
C zubac
Pf/c august
Vasheed says
I seriuosly question the Mozgov contract. I think he could very well wind up playing the 3rd string role behind behind Zubac and Black while making 16 million per year for 4 years. Resigning Hibbert may have even been a better move.
Deng actually checks off a lot of boxes on things I would want. He can play multiple positions. He is a half way decent defender. I don’t think there is much question that he would be a caretaker of the starting position at SF until Ingram could takeover. He is a decennt role model veteran pressence. Just 4 years for a guy who is 31? I think I would have prefered fewer years for more money upfront. I think both contracts will hurt down the road and don’t offer anyupside now by saving cap space now.
Msway says
Suns – TWolves – Nuggets – Kings – Rockets – Mavericks – Jazz – Pelicans – With two Playoff spots available these are the teams to beat and how many wins will it take? I want that 8th seed,get me more roster upgrades with the talent on the board,FO get your ass dealin.
Msway says
Mozgov is a monstruous stud that got overlooked because of style of play. Look at him close, he can flat out play . You all are gona dig his 7-1 275 pound russion machine work ethic, with touch, its an absolute freaky truth that a man,7-1 not 6-9 not-6-8 almost 9 there is a film of him out there stealing the ball from horford, who comes up to his chest hair by the way, steals the ball outlets it to the middle and beats horford to the rim for a slam, this guy can play,jersey sales are gona rip off the shelves.Get more Shooters, the inside is gona be clogged.
Clay Bertrand says
_ Robert _
Robert, we likely had to include the 4th years in these deals. Its a Sellers market.
Mosgov has actually been pretty durable save for last season. He had a cyst removed from his knee area last offseason and rushed back too soon in a Contract year. Its not as if he has REAL structural knee issues.
matt24 says
My bold prediction, the lakers sign brandon bass for 2 years 20 million
They are waiting on that to make sure they can match any offers on tarik black and marcelo huertas.
Also I heard that if a team doesn’t reach the cap floor, the penalty is they have to spend the rest of the money by distributing it to their players, so everyone on the team would get a raise.
matt24 says
Good post clay, i never thought of it like that, regarding mosgov’s knee, and I’m sure the FO had advice on that.
matt24 says
A look at the differences on the team going forward.
Kobe, replacement deng
Hibbert, replacement mosgov
Kelly, replacement ingram
Sacre, replacement zubac
Msway says
That is True that the remaining cap is distributed,IMO the extra room shoul be used to make us as competitive as possible now.Get that 8th seed,Id like to aquire an additional atheletic leaper type or a shooter,sign Bass,Black and huertos, No projects,No head cases.
HaroldSeokohYun says
If the FO thinks that we need at least 3 years to develop, and that we are currently not an attractive team for big time FAs, I can understand this approach. Come year 3, both of these contracts are expiring contracts and hopefully our core will be competitive, giving us both trade assets and a more attractive team, something we don’t have at this point. Obviously it’ll be better to have these signings work out regardless of their value in 3 years, but with the minimum signing requirement and everything, the moves look at least purposeful.
barath_s says
In 2 years time if things go well, randle will be looking for a payout when mozgov, Deng and clarkson will be chewing cap space.
1 year after that, d’lo will be ready for his payday.
If normal aging curves apply, that could lead to issues like the Lakers having to bribe a trade partner with picks.
I do hope that this is descending pay structure or partial guarantees…
A Horse With No Name says
The funny thing is, I considered Mozgoz a pretty decent potential center to acquire because he would be undervalued given that he barely played this season and was recovering from knee surgery. Apparently I was wrong, as multiple reports indicated that a number of top teams had interest. The lakers had to overpay to get him, that appears to be understood by most observers. Biyombo was my guy, but it appears Luke was enthusiastic about signing Mozgov–we’ll shall see. Pretty pleased and surprised by the Deng signing. Still a very solid NBA starter who has at least a few solid seasons left. (We should all remember that the cap zooms up another 34 percent next year, which will make these deals look much better.)
But yeah, we had to over pay a bit. That’s the world the Lakers and every other bottom feeding/rebuilding team live in. Laker exceptionalism is dead. Finito, may it rest in peace. Thanks for the memories. Done in by a jealous cabal of small minded owners, that conspired to kill a brilliant trade for Chris Paul and then crafted a new CBA that leveled the advantages the lakers had enjoyed for decades. The only way back up was to first hit bottom, and then bounce back with a passel of high picks and build incrementally. So far, the rebuild is off to a promising start. I’m hopeful there’s another decent deal in the offing, like signing Jon Leur. Except that he already got snapped up–someone like that–not sure who–maybe a low rent trade for a veteran–just keep swinging.
Mostly though, I’m excited about our young guys playing for a young coach who has great player development skills and will run a great offense that they should thrive in. Go Lakers!
Michael NP says
@fern16
How do you feel about the Lakers taking back Bass for more than one year (since that’s what he’s looking for)? Metta would be a one-year rental option. He’s always been a hard worker with a sense of loyalty to the franchise.
Msway says
1st round picks are on a 5 yr scale, the 1st trough the3rd yr are team options. the 4th year is a 21% pay increase or negotiated restructure, the 5thyr is a 30% increase or restructure Then free agency the fallowing year. This means that julius is in line for a 30% inrease for the 18/19 season or about 10 mil( Peanuts) Before free agency. We have 4 first rounders on the roster,so the front office is thinking ahead.Its time to start winning some games and competing for a post season appearance this year.
medias_res says
Clay Bertrand LT Mitchell The scenario you presented is literally true but intended to deceive when you look at the details of how the franchises developed – your comparison is not apt. Your general statement ignores the details of what actually happened.
1st, for Boston, after winning in 2008 and being contenders until 2011, they were not able to reload enough to remain as contenders at all. In 2012 and 2013, they were not considered as contenders. They were stuck where they were, but luckily, was offered a rebuild package from the Nets. This brought them to 2014. Only 2 seasons have passed after this. Fact remains, they were not and still not considered as contenders for much longer than the Lakers. What also remains true is that this timeline is much different than what the Lakers went through. Did they have a better foundation THIS year and were able to attract ‘better’ FAs? Sure, but they have had longer time since they have been out of contention for much longer. I would also say their ownership status is much more sound as well which top tier FAs know are very important.
2nd, for the Lakers, after winning in 2009 and 2010, they were still considered contenders in 2011 and sort of in 2012. So, unlike Boston, Lakers won more rings and remained as contenders for longer. After 2012, feeling like their window was closing but Kobe/Pau still playing really well, Lakers thought they got themselves back in contention by getting Dwight and Nash. They were considered as contenders again in 2013 and in 2014 (everyone generally thought this, if the roster could get over the injuries) Clay, did you have hindsight of ALL the injuries happening? Did you have hindsight of these signings not working out? Well, good for you if you did, and I imagine you have won several lotteries as well.
What happened after 2014 is entirely different than what happened to Boston. Clay, you must know, if you want to contend and get top tier players, you have to trade unknown assets (like draft picks and potential) for known assets (like a Steve Nash/superstar). Lakers did this and were successful in putting a big 4 together. Guess what, Clay, this is what all the teams like Boston are trying to do RIGHT now and have failed to do. This is the reason why Lakers lacked “assets” the last couple of years – they traded them as a package to land a superstar. So, after 2014, Lakers were ALREADY without draft picks and young players because they were considered to be contenders with big 4. So after 2014, now clearly not in contention but also without assets, Lakers decided to pay Kobe the salary he deserved (if you knew how economics of basketball worked).
Only since 2015, Lakers were able to slowly start their process of accumulating assets and they have done pretty well. But, one major issue remains that the ownership structure is not sound. It is evidently clear top tier talents put a lot of value in sound ownership. This has nothing to do with Kobe – whether trading him earlier (when exactly? They were in contention as recently as 2014. BTW, at this point, it was more valuable to the Lakers to keep Kobe than to trade him) or not paying the money (again, no assets already and basketball economics). In fact, valuing players relationship with the franchise has to be a net positive in the perception of other players.
Lakers ownership has been a mess and those in the league clearly understand this. Add to the fact that the Lakers have not been very good over the last 2 seasons for the reasons I laid out above, well, you are seeing the results now..
sean_is says
medias_res Clay Bertrand LT Mitchell medias_res, this is a good post, man. Well laid out.
jameskatt says
Beggers can’t be choosers. The Lakers certainly have no choice but to scrape the bottom of the barrel to fill their needs. The problem of being a poor team is that people will take advantage of you so that you end up paying through the nose.
Shaunis007 says
mavs,kings,pelicans all not making the playoffs
Shaunis007 says
we need a better baclup pg
Shaunis007 says
the Houston pelicans
Shaunis007 says
except both those guys suck right, hill avgd 4pts 3 rbs while deng started on a contending team,past all star, and could be our igoudala, mozgov is really gopd amd will surprise you- much better game overall to jerome biyombo james
John Citizen says
These 2 contracts will look cheap in 2 years, would be moved if needed. I will go and try and get a vet PG now.
wwlofficial says
JR3233 I would prefer stability, continuity and professionalism over the “opportunity” that you allude to with the 1+1 contract.
wwlofficial says
medias_res Solo Hill’s final year has been declined by Larry Bird for being overweight and having lack of work ethic. That move made him bust his a$$ off and got a breakout season last year. In all other years prior to that, he was a rookie and a sophomore who was growing to be nothing more than a fringe NBA player.
He is just like Clarkson, except Clarkson has proven work ethic, improved every year and cost less somehow.
wwlofficial says
new rr even if we managed to convince Horford to come (sorry, we won’t) adding KD and AH to our core makes no sense.
wwlofficial says
Michael NP Like it alot, yet another high-character hard-worker I’d love on the team. No ego at all.