During a game between the Lakers and Thunder this past season Kevin Durant had a brief in-game exchange with former Lakers’ head coach Byron Scott. Durant said to Scott that the Lakers were a lot better than they had been earlier during the year and Scott responded that his young guys were “starting to get it”.
It was a nice exchange and acknowledgement from Durant that the Lakers had made some progress — especially the young players. It really shouldn’t have been taken as anything more than that, but, well, we all know that’s not how these things work.
Fast-forward to this summer. The Lakers were interested in meeting with Durant in free agency. Durant did not reciprocate that interest, shunning the Lakers entirely and never granting them a sit-down. This was big news. Well, it leas it was treated as big news. In reality, it shouldn’t have been.
Why does this matter now? Well, it sort of doesn’t. But, at least now we have more background for his decision. Today at the opening of Team USA’s training camp leading up to the Olympics, Durant went on the record with his reasoning for not meeting with the Lakers in July:
KD on not meeting with Lakers in FA: "I just didn’t. Nothing against the Lakers, but I already had my eyes set on who I wanted to talk to."
— Baxter Holmes (@Baxter) July 18, 2016
KD added of the Lakers, "I really respect their team, but I just thought they were a couple years away from where I wanted to be."
— Baxter Holmes (@Baxter) July 18, 2016
Basically, Durant said exactly what everyone already knew and was completely obvious when his meetings were being scheduled. When we saw that Durant only met with teams who would become the type of top tier contenders who would compete for a title with him in the fold, this was even more clear. And then he chose the Warriors and, well, his logic became so transparent one wonders why he even met with any teams besides Golden State at all.
Anyway, if you were still wondering why Durant didn’t meet with the Lakers, now you know. However, if you were following Durant’s decision at all, you probably already knew why. I guess it’s nice to get it right from the horse’s mouth.
Lastly, all of this simply underscores why it’s important the Lakers make real strides in the coming seasons. And it’s also the prism recent moves should be viewed through. It remains to be seen how much signings like Luol Deng or Timofey Mozgov help on the court, what type of hire Luke Walton is, or how good the team’s recent draft picks will be. But I think it’s clear the Lakers are very much of the mind that improvement is needed sooner rather than later and that sticking with the status quo by retaining Byron Scott and rolling over all their cap space into next summer wasn’t going to get them closer to their goals.
_Craig W says
For the last three years many Laker fans seem to have been stuck in the, “We have to sign a great free-agent” mode. Why??? I suspect it is impatience and the feeling that the Lakers deserve to win now and not have to evolve.
Big free agent signings are very normally cherries on top of cakes, not building blocks. Teams have to be fundamentally sound, or they will continue to spin their wheels after acquiring any top-tier talent. Look at the Knicks after the Anthony trade – the gave away all their depth with that trade and were a simply mediocre team because of it.
There is not shortcut to building talent, particularly in light of the current CBA. I can’t emphasize enough that this agreement was targeted directly at the Lakers. Never mind that it has obvious holes that other teams have taken advantage of, it was aimed at a team of high salaried veterans, trying to maintain their dominance. It succeeded, but Mitch has become a wily practitioner of the draft process and things look bright again.
However, we shouldn’t keep looking at the ‘next free-agent around the corner.’ We may never get an
A List’ free-agent. We may just develop our own stars – like Kobe Bryant, Magic Johnson, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, et all. Kareem and Shaq are nice, but neither resulted in an immediate title. We had to have the depth. Let’s keep our expectations in perspective. Yes, we would like a Kevin Durant, but we aren’t at a loss because we don’t sign him.
_ Robert _ says
I have been against most of our efforts to get big time free
agents over the past couple of years (Melo being a perfect example).That said, in order to win a championship,
you generally need to have 1 or more of the top 5 players in the league.Review the 1st team All NBA Teams
against the list of NBA champions and it is easy to see.The Lakers have never won without 1 or 2 of
these guys on the team.So while we do
not want to be impatient in a foolish way, the objective is to get the top
players.You either need to sign them as
FA like we did with Shaq and Jamaal, trade for them like we did with Wilt and Kareem,
or draft them like we did with West, Goodrich, Elgin, Worthy, Magic, or Kobe.So
if you say“We
may never get an A List’ free-agent.”That means we better either make a trade, or one of our picks better
turn out like someone on that list.I like
Ingram, and I suppose I could learn to like DAR.I also think we got some bargains in the
second round over the past three years.However are any of these guys going to end up on the wall?If not, it might be a long time before we
hoist another banner. That is – unless we sign someone in FA:)Or make a really good trade:)Drafting and slowly watching
players develop until they finally win a championship five years later makes
for a good story, but it is rarely how NBA titles are won.
new rr says
_Craig W
Why???
—
Like I have said when you have posted this so many times before: your complaint is with Jim Buss, not with the fanbase. Buss stated publicly that he wanted to sign two max FAs, stated the timeline publicly, and then FO offered Pau an extension, extended Kobe, and chased Aldridge and Anthony.
“Fans” of course covers a lot of territory, but as we have seen the last few days with the flurry of optimism about the young guys, I think the fanbase would have been cool with the FO not chasing second- and third-tier max FAs. Kobe, assuming that he was under contract in this scenario, might not have liked it, but there would have been nothing he could do except complain to the media, and given the deal the Lakers gave him and how he was playing when he could actually suit up, that would not have gone well for him.
The FO has done a nice job drafting and hiring Walton. But as the KBros have said, they pretty much “Magoo’d” their way here, and that has nothing to do with the fanbase.
matt24 says
If a good draft breeds championship, here are some teams who have recently drafted well
Twolves, lakers, suns, nuggets, bucks
A Horse With No Name says
Craig’s love for the lakers and admiration for Pavlov’s work in classical conditioning bear fruit once again.
new rr says
A Horse With No Name
I actually gave you a like. The snark and
condescension were predictable, but the Pavlov’s thing was a nice touch. That
said, even an unabashed sunshine pumper like you should be able to own that the
fanbase has not been the problem with the Lakers’ FA misadventures. Let’s see
if you have it in ya…bryan s.
HaroldSeokohYun says
_ Robert _ The Detroit team that ended the Lakers run was memorable since I don’t think they had a legit top 5 player in their team; Hamilton, Billups, Wallace, Prince were all good players but don’t think any of them were top 5, maybe even top 10.
LT Mitchell says
Brian Shaw was asked what the main goal is for the upcoming season in a recent interview. Besides developing the young players, he said the main goal for the team is to improve enough to attract the top free agents next summer. Attracting free agents has been priority number one from the start of the Jimbo regime, and Shaw seems to understand that it is still the main goal…..although Shaw has a more realistic understanding of what it is going to take to actually achieve that goal.
It’s silly to try to marginalize the importance of a top free agent just because our team fails to sign one year after year after year. If you ask someone on a date and she rejects you…. you are only going to make it worse by saying you never really liked her anyway.
new rr says
_ Robert _
Good points. In the NBA, you pretty much always
have to kick the tires on a Top-5 guy. But as Durant’s quotes demonstrate, in
the modern NBA, you also have to look at whether there is actually a chance
that the guy will come here. Craig does know his Lakers history, and I would
add to some of the points he made by saying that there were specific reasons
that Shaq and Kareem wanted to come here, related to the guys themselves. There
was no reason at all to think that Durant or James would want to be here. Westbrook
is a different story in some ways, but given that the Lakers’ best young guy
(probably) plays the same position and Westbrook will be entering his age-29
season, it is probably not a match. Also, I don’t see Westbrook as a Top-5 guy
in any case.
So…the FO probably needs to stay the course, get
the team back to relevance, and wait for the right opportunity…just like Jerry
West did from 1991 to 1996.
HaroldSeokohYun says
There is no denying that you want to poach talent. Exhibit 1, GSW just nabbing OKC’s best player. This goes beyond ‘how to build’ but is just a great move. Not only does it make your problem go away, but you make it everyone else’s problem. Basketball reasons, smh, that would have been such a smooth transition. Sorry, just can’t let that one go…
Also, it’s a chicken and egg thing with good team/good signing. A great FA catch won’t do you much good without a good team in place (it does help you become that good team for the NEXT FA signing), and without a good team you probably won’t be able to attract good, established players.
The only way I see that a team can buck that trend in this age of market parity is establishing yourself as the organization with all the intangibles – coaching, training staff, benefits (shady deals for friends and family?), scouts, minute restrictions, loyalty, and so on and so forth. Lakers have some of that, and if they play the difference in how Kobe/Wade was handled, maybe we can lure talent who is hungry to establish themselves after their rookie contract. I mean, Wade’s farewell tour is going to be very different from that of Kobe’s if he elects for one because he is no longer a Heat, and that’s gotta sting for Wade and everyone who is close to him.
A Horse With No Name says
Of course the fans aren’t directly responsible. But being a perennial championship team certainly breeds impatience in many fans when the winning is over. The laker exceptionalists are having a terrible time with it, and the lakers have felt that pressure. The lakers made a wonderful trade that would have brought more winning, only to have it rescinded by Stern. What followed was a series of increasingly desperate moves to remain relevant and restock the barren cupboard. Done in by Stern,the new CBA , and the inevitable down cycle that follows championships, the team stunk and looked to improve any way they could, including trying to sign free agents in the hope they might lure others. Those misadventures cured the organization ( but not all of their fans as we see here) of laker exceptionalism. They had the Kobe farewell to get through, and then as Mitch said, they could get on with rebuilding; which they are doing a fantastic job of. It almost couldn’t be better, really. A combination of some luck in the lottery and terrific drafting. And now the hiring of Luke to develop this talent. It’s very exciting, and makes all the losing worth it. It’s rebuilding without any guarantees that we will be champions again, but there really isn’t any other way forward. I’m going to enjoy the journey, as most fans seem ready to do.
A Horse With No Name says
Rr: I don’t know why my iPad won’t let me like your reply, but I tried to like it!U0001f913
J C hoops says
Durant snubs second worst team in the league in favor of best team in history.
Dog bites man.
Prince1508 says
Its hard when you have always been succesfull but we need to be patient and understand that the big markets are there no more …every player will now play in every city small or big coz they can pay the big bucks and thats the only thing that counts in the end …and hopefully win a ring on the way …only a few are nostalgic and want to be a laker , a knick , a bull or a celtic …
Busboys4me says
Pat Riley seems to be genuinely upset that they F’d this up. He will not have much loyalty going forward. The Heat fired the Mayor of Miami!!!
Busboys4me says
That WAS how titles were one but not anymore. Look at GSW and potentially Minessota and up until recently Boston, Orlando and Milwaukee. These teams are building their core through the draft, letting them grow together and then seasoning in Free Agents.
We also need to take this route because we should ready to compete with Boston and Minnesota when Golden State, Cleveland and San Antonio have run their courses.
Busboys4me says
@new rr
The FO has done a nice job drafting and hiring Walton. But as the KBros have said, they pretty much “Magoo’d” their way here, and that has nothing to do with the fanbase.
Excellent observation and hilarious quote by the KBros!!! It was quite obvious that the FO stumbled their way to here. They inadvertently tanked. You can even say they Super Tanked. They didn’t keep players that made the team better like Ed Davis and Bazemore, but kept buffoons like NickY, Sacre and Kelley. Come on the FO had a choice between Kelley and Bazemore and they chose Kelley?!?!
The Kobe Farewell Tour was genius though. It gave an opportunity to be horrible with an excuse. That is why Byron was selected, to let Kobe go out on his own terms. Any other coach would have been strictly about winning. But that want our plan. In the process we would be looked at favorably by some free agents for respecting our legends. Pat Riley sees the error of his ways now.
If our kids come together and play well and have fun doing so, look for some young FAs to come our way. The new NBA players are about having fun but winning in the process. It will be interesting to see how Minny reacts to an Old School coach like Thibs. We might be able to attract one of their guys. You never know. Zach Levine looks good, he’s a bigger, faster Clarkson.
BigCitySid10552 says
_Craig W Very logical, very sound advice. One thing not taken into consideration; the almighty fight for the L. A. entertainment dollar. Lakers don’t play OKC or San Antonio. Corporations & the big money casual fan base looking for “Big Name entertainment & excitement” have plenty of options. As a hardcore realistic Laker fan I agree with you, question is, will Jim Bus(t)?
_Craig W says
HaroldSeokohYun Put very well. A good free-agent signing can beget another good free-agent signing. However, don’t forget the CBA. It penalizes teams who sign high priced talent, because the Luxury Taxes are so onerous. IMO, the Lakers are going to have to build through the draft, then sign mid-level free-agents (like GS) to become relevant. The cherry on the top (Kevin Durant) may, or may not come.
Counter view to the GS signing of Kevin Durant. 1) they steeply reduced their depth, because they had to let several people walk, 2) they will still have to resign Steph Curry and will be far over the Luxury Cap to do so, 3) they really cannot afford to pay any other talent they may find in the draft. Because of these factors, their window has actually been shortened because of signing Kevin Durant. The counter is that it is now a really huge window for the present. This, however, gives the Lakers more opportunity in about 3 years; only if they allow themselves enough cap room to sign their current, budding stars to follow-on contracts – not sign a couple of high-priced free-agents. Certainly you can argue this view, but it is a perspective we might consider in this discussion.
J C hoops says
I think Riley was posturing. Sure he feels bad if he gets bad press for losing Wade. But if he wanted Wade ba
_Craig W says
J C hoops Agree completely! Riley is secretly celebrating because he is able to get on with his rebuild now, instead of trying to butt heads with Lebron. The real problem for him is perception. He wants to recruit others in the future, but this would be hampered by his tossing Wade on the ‘trash heap’ – whereas the Lakers allowed Kobe to ride off into the sunset, while drafting Randle, Clarkson, Russell, Nance Jr, and A. Brown while he was riding.
We don’t know how this will work out yet. Let’s talk about results in about four years, i.e. are we able to sign a free-agent when we are stronger and the difference between clubs may be our loyalty to Kobe.
_Craig W says
Prince1508 I think NY, LA, SF & Chicago will always have a bit more pull in the free-agent market – except for players like Tim Duncan – however, their pull has certainly been reduced by the CBA and internet marketing strategies. I just don’t think it has been completely eliminated. However, you have to have a good organization and some good pieces in place before you can take advantage of this. This is where trades come in and organizations have to be really careful not to sell-out for one player – decimating their surrounding talent in the process.
IMO, GS did this beautifully; trading for Bogut when his value was down, then signing Iggy when his value was also lower than it had been. They got two experienced players to fit into their puzzle, without destroying their salary structure. Their experiment with David Lee didn’t go so well and shows every move is a risk, with possible downside impact on cap limitations.
Lakers Future says
J C hoops
The problem is what Riley wanted will come back to bite him in the rear. Yes, he got rid of Wade. Yes they will save some money. But Wade was his mouthpiece and best recruiter. It was Wade who talked LeBron and Bosh into coming to Miami.
Wade was Riley’s real assistant GM. And as much as I respect Riley he’s no longer the best communicator when it comes to this generation of players. He needs Wade more than he realizes.
_ Robert _ says
HaroldSeokohYun _ Robert _ Yes – the 2004 Pistons team is the perfect example of the championship team without a superstar. The late 80’s Piston teams and a couple of SA teams are also good examples. As to the rest of the 60 years of NBA history, well you better have one of the top 3 guys or so.
_ Robert _ says
new rr The 91-96 plan is probably the best we have now – agreed. Problem is that it has taken us 5 years to get to that point. The 90’s team suffered the Announcement and the retirement of KAJ and Worthy so we could have easily cratered as much as we have now. We did not. The lowest win total was 33 games and the team only missed the playoffs once during the decade. It also took 9 years to get back to the Finals.
So are we looking at 2025? : )
_ Robert _ says
Busboys4me GS has won exactly 1 title with that formula. Cleveland did it the old fashioned way – they signed FA : ) And now GS is jumping on that bandwagon as well (that was quite a large amount of “seasoning” they added). And anyways my point is not FA vs Drafting. My point is that history shows you need 1 or more of the top 3-4 players in the league. This and last were no exception. So we either need to get busy in FA/Trading in the next couple of years or we need to hope that one of the youngers is a developing superstar (not simply an All Star).
new rr says
_ Robert _ new rr
Well, here’s the thing: for the Lakers to get back to
contention, the numbers of things that work out over the next 3-4 years will
have to match the number of things that didn’t over the last 3-4, and it is a
long list:
Veto/Nash deal/Brown hire/D’Antoni hire/Kobe injury/Howard
walking/Scott hire/Kobe extension/Pau leaving for nothing. Added to that are
some questionable decisions/bad luck at the margins with personnel: Kapono/Murphy/Sessions/Young/Williams/Bazemore/Davis/Hibbert
On the other side of the ledger are the draft picks, and a
couple of shrewd small moves to get some extra picks, some OK but
inconsequential moves, and now the Walton hire.
So, given what has gone down since the Veto, it would
actually be surprising if the Lakers got into the 50-55 win range before, say, 2019.
As I have said, I like the young guys, but I do not think
anybody on the current roster will be a Top-5 player. So, IMO best case is that
these guys are the group that leads to landing the next Top 5 or Top 10 guy.
new rr says
_Craig W HaroldSeokohYun
Durant is entering his age-28 season and is one of the 10-15
greatest forwards in NBA history, and he is replacing Harrison Barnes on a team
that has won 140 games and a championship the last two years.
Golden State now has 3 of the Top 10 players in basketball, another
guy who is an All-Star, and none of them is older than 28. They have three guys
who the defense has to account for from the three-point line to the rim, and
two of the best long-range shooters in the history of the NBA in an era focused
on the three-pointer. They lost Bogut, Barnes, Rush and Ezeli. They have
brought in Durant, Pachulia, and West. They still have Iguodala and Livingston,
and some people think that Patrick McCaw can play. They may get something out
of Kevon Looney this year as well.
One problem with your depth argument is that a good
organization can find guys at the margins, and they already got West and
Pachulia because of the magnetic pull of a chance to be part of history. The other problem with it is that at playoff
time, Kerr will be able to keep either Durant or Curry on the floor at all
times, just as Phil used to with Jordan and Pippen back in the 90s.
They have minor concerns with Durant and Curry staying on
the floor due to health; as well as shot allocation, and rim protection.
Yes,
they will blow past the luxury tax, but Lacob will probably worry about that as
much as Dan Gilbert just did. Golden State basically has a team whose floor is
about 58 wins. Their ceiling is about 75, and none of the guys who are the keys
to that are have turned 29 yet, much less 30. While there are no guarantees of
anything, they don’t have a “window.” They have a set of jewel-bordered sliding
glass doors.
HaroldSeokohYun says
_Craig W HaroldSeokohYun I think it is understood that you can’t really field a dynasty anymore. Every team basically understands that your window is about 3 years from a team perspective, with each successful championship or run to the final perhaps extending that window a bit because you can sign talent on the cheap.
GSW, if they are as smart as they say they are, understands that their window is probably 3-4 years tops be it CBA, injury, or personnel conflict. That is why they wanted Durant at the expense of depth. Also, since Barnes was likely to command max despite his performance, they really did not sacrifice that much, and they would have had to deal with Curry’s situation regardless of the KD signing. Sure it impacted them, but we all saw what happened to OKC when they tried to be pennywise and got rid of Harden.
Now the exception, of course, is the Spurs, but we’ll see if they can maintain their identity without TD. TD was special in that he was efficient not just on court but also in the ledger, especially for a big.
As for the Lakers, we’ll need to have some luck on our side and have at least one of our picks develop into a bona-fide all star who others can see themselves playing with and winning. It doesn’t matter that we are ‘efficient’ budget-wise, it’s still a gamble and it’s just time down the drain if they don’t develop. Also, if you think about it, it may require more than one becoming an all-star as the one that grew in our system can always leave to another team with better prospects.
I do feel pretty good about our chances though, since it really just has to be two of Ingram, Russel, Randle, Zubac, Clarkson, and Nance growing into an all-star, especially if Deng can produce. We will have to see how it goes though.
mattal says
FiveThirtyEight did an article about the rampant overpayment
of NBA free agents this summer. The
Lakers do not fare well, leading the league in cumulative overpayment.
For all the
applause Jim and Mitch have gotten for earning high lottery picks and subsequently
drafting well their record in free agency leaves much to be desired. In a hard cap league it is never a good idea
to overpay for talent — even if that cap is rising. Per FiveThirtyEight the Lakers will overpay
Mozgov/Deng/Black $31.4 million dollars this year.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/2016-is-a-great-summer-to-be-a-mediocre-nba-free-agent/
·Mozgov
signed for $16 mil /year. Value is $.56
mil /year. Overpayment of $15.44 mil /year.
·Deng
signed for $18 mil /year. Value is $8.72
mil /year. Overpayment of $9.28 mil /year.
·Black
signed for $6.43 mil /year. Value is $.11
mil /year. Overpayment of $6.32 mil /year.
new rr says
A Horse With No Name
Props for your good humor and reply. On my end, I will make an effort not to be as snarky with you. And you and Craig are very valuable contributors although we disagree a lot.
rr
Still R says
Overpaying Kobe and letting him run amok the past couple seasons is going to influence future FAs zero in their decision to come here. Case in point: KD didn’t give a rip about it evidently; neither did Whiteside. If it didn’t matter this year, why would it matter more next year? Memories are very short in this business.
Unless the argument is that is why Moz signed, rather than the 1.7 trillion $ the contract he got lol.
BuckFoston says
we got our own Slim Reaper now…. couldn’t be more excited about Ingram & Zublocka.
LordMo says
Duh! Come on guys! We had no chance with KD or any top FA. This team is still no where close to competing for anything but lottery picks. I give KD credit for his tactful candor even though he will always be a gutless punk to me.
LordMo told you he was headed to the bay which to me shows he ain’t the alpha dog everyone makes him out to be. Like I said Westbrook is the guy and I’m sure he is ready to roast some fools. He will likely leave OKC now but still might be hard to get him unless u trade for him now. Keep some young talent draft well in 2017 and go for Blake Griffin who I know ain’t really feeling the Clippers lately.
With Westbrook (top 5 player) and Griffin (all star big) and a couple of solid role players that gives you something if one of the youngsters becomes an all star level player. We could only be a couple years away if we make the right moves and some lady luck!