The Lakers famously spent a boatload of cash this past summer on free agents Timofey Mozgov and Luol Deng. I have spilled countless words on those signings so I will not revisit the merits or drawbacks of either contract now. That said, one of the real consequences of those deals was how it impacted salary cap space for next season.
It was always assumed that if the Lakers were unable to secure commitments from top flight FA’s this July, they would simply roll over a large chunk of space, combine it with the cap jump scheduled for next summer, and try to ink two top-tiered free agents in the summer of 2017. The Mozgov and Deng deals ended those assumptions with large cash commitments. Add in the guaranteed deals of their young core and Lou Williams’ (not to mention Nick Young’s) contract and the Lakers might be close to not even affording a single max contract slot.
Zach Lowe, in his free agency winners and losers column, rationalized this type of spending thusly:
Everyone knew the Lakers, in this ragged state, would have a hard time convincing stars to join. No one envisioned a day when stars would cold-shoulder requests for a courtesy meeting in the league’s offseason capital.
With A-listers blowing you off, you can’t worry about hoarding cap space for two max contracts in 2017 — especially when any team can magic up cap space in a pinch.
I pretty much agree with Lowe’s reasoning here. The Lakers have long sat on their hands when the top-tiered guys have turned them down, favoring to acquire players on team friendly contracts where cap space could be preserved. This, ultimately, has not worked out in their favor. They did turn the pick sent over with Jeremy Lin into Larry Nance, but beyond that deal all the team has to show for their moves over the last few summers are a boatload of losses and the resulting lottery picks.
Well, now the team is interested in winning some games and the way to do that is to actually improve the team. Their hope is that they’ve done that this summer. It should go without saying, but time will tell if they’ve been successful.
Still, though, signing guys this past July should not mean a full abandonment of the previous strategy where cap space and financial flexibility are tucked away for the future. The hope is that in the next year, this team improves. And, if they do, they will need to have some left over cap space to combine with the summer of 2017 cap jump to be able to chase a top-level player.
According to Basketball Insiders Lakers’ salary page (which are maintained by Eric Pincus), the Lakers have structured the salaries of Mozgov, Deng, and Jordan Clarkson to decline in the 2nd season, opening up a bit of cap space in the process:
All totaled, the downward adjustments in salary are roughly $2.5 million in salary savings next summer. That might not sound like a lot of money, but consider the following:
- The league has adjusted their projected salary cap for the 2017-18 season from $107 million to $102 million.
- While max salary slots are based on the cap number, contracts already signed will hit the cap at there negotiated number.
- If the Lakers were to pick up all the options on all their players, they would only have about
$24$19 million in salary cap space next summer. - This number can go up by not picking up the options on Tarik Black (estimated at $6.6 million), Marcelo Huertas (estimated at $1.7 million), or Anthony Brown ($1.01 million).
- This number can also be affected should the Lakers stretch or waive Nick Young (before this season or next summer) or by shedding salary in a trade of Lou Williams.
That’s a lot of numbers I just threw at you, but to make it simple: the Lakers may end up needing that full $2.5 million in savings next summer. A player with 10 years of service (Russell Westbrook, for example*) can make up to 35% of the salary cap. It seems the Lakers could get to that amount by not picking up Black’s option and stretching Nick Young.
But if the Lakers hadn’t structured Clarkson, Mozgov, and Deng’s contracts the way they did, they may have also needed to not pick up the options on Brown or Huertas, or even looked into moving Lou Williams for salary savings to give them some extra space.
They should not have to resort to those options, however. And it’s all because of what looks to be a tweak to the 2nd year of those contracts.
*When this article was originally posted, I mentioned Russell Westbrook would be a 10 year veteran. That is incorrect. At the conclusion of next season Westbrook will have completed 9 seasons. Under the current CBA, he would be eligible for a max contract which is 30% of the cap. The rest of this post still applies, though I did tweak the available cap space number to account for Brandon Ingram’s deal which will likely be around $5 million for his 2nd season.
mattal says
Darius – I had just posted this one minute ago in the last thread. Since it better fits this topic I am reposting here. Fell free to delete the previous post.
__
FiveThirtyEight did an article about the rampant overpayment of NBA free agents this summer. The Lakers do not fare well, leading the league in cumulative overpayment.
For all the applause Jim and Mitch have gotten for earning high lottery picks and subsequently drafting well their record in free agency leaves much to be desired. In a hard cap league it is never a good idea to overpay for average talent — even if that cap is rising. Per FiveThirtyEightthe Lakers will overpay Mozgov/Deng/Black $31.4 million dollars this year alone.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/2016-is-a-great-summer-to-be-a-mediocre-nba-free-agent/
– Mozgov signed for $16 mil /year. Value is $.56 mil /year. Overpayment of $15.44 mil /year.
– Deng signed for $18 mil /year. Value is $8.72 mil /year. Overpayment of $9.28 mil /year.
– Black signed for $6.43 mil /year. Value is $.11 mil /year. Overpayment of $6.32 mil /year.
mattal says
Note: On the FiveThirtyEight article the 2016 free agents are interspersed with the 2015 players. Jordan Clarkson is indeed listed. Their assessment of his deal is:
Clarkson signed for $12.5 mil /year. Value is $9.44 mil /year. Overpayment of $3.06 mil /year.
Considering that Jordan still has upside I would think this is the type of contract the Lakers should be targeting.
spartla says
mattal Black never really got a chance to perform up to his potential under Scott, so taking a one-year flyer with a second year option isn’t a horrible use of the cap space. Also, Deng is a real player and leader, and he may not have come for less than 4 years. You can argue that having one player of his caliber is not going to sink the team, especially with so many rookie-scale players on the roster. I think a 3 year deal would have been much preferred, but you have to pay to play, and forwards who can play defense and offense were at a huge premium this offseason. My biggest problem is the Mozgov contract. The Lakers could have had Ian Mahinmi or Biombo for that money, or Festus for less. They simply jumped the gun on a center-heavy market, and totally hamstrung themselves for years. My guess is that the front office correctly estimated the free agent spending spree, but heavily overestimated Mozgov’s market. Coming off of his knee surgeries – he just didn’t seem like the same player. It looks like Jim and Mitch wanted to get better now, and didn’t care that they were hamstringing cap room when they will probably be out of a job before those contracts are up. The draft picks look really good, like you said, but the Lakers would have been better off standing pat on big, long-term contracts like the 76ers did.
MT87 says
I wonder if when the CBA gets redone they will include another amnesty provision. If so, it has Mozgov’s name written all over it.
cyborgspider says
MT87 Much like the Arenas Provision and the Rose Rule, we’ll have the Mozgov Bailout 🙂
cyborgspider says
Even IF by some miracle Nick Young gets through this season with the Lakers (maybe Luke becomes the Swaggy Whisperer and promises him a fair shot), the following season is a player option and he’ll probably decline it in pursuit of a longer deal, his last shot at a meaningful contract. So maybe stretching him isn’t a foregone conclusion or requirement.
Also, the salary cap usually goes up a little bit right after the moratorium, so this estimate of 102m may end up being 103 or 104… long story short, Lakers should have enough to offer one max 35% salary to a player next season without shedding anyone of importance.
The following year with Boogie/Paul George potentially on the market, you can salary-dump Deng and are freed of Lou’s contract to clear up even more cash for one of those players (again, without sacrificing the youth). Lakers are thinking years ahead here…
_Craig W says
spartla mattal If wishes were horses…. With everyone bemoaning the Mozgov contract it is instructive to note that not only Walton, but Shaw signed off on this deal. Shaw actually coached him and Luke both played against and schemed against him. Both apparently see him in the Bogut role, something the Lakers simply did not have in any way shape or form.
I see all the crying about his contract by the same people who constantly talk about how Kobe’s contract hamstrung the Lakers. The fact that they weren’t going to get anyone else with the money they paid Kobe, they made a ‘boatload’ of cash off Kobe playing through his final years, and they don’t have to worry about the ‘Pat Riley’ effect in future negotiations makes the decision a fairly reasonable one – regardless what the ^&()#*&$#& talking heads say.
FredP says
The drop in salaries next year makes sense but next season would be the worst time for a max contract since the earnings for the league drop after that. As far as this offseason goes, the Lakers went all in on developing their young players. The coaching staff is very young player friendly and already has provided the supportive environment they need. The two big free agents they signed are near perfect matches for what they needed from veteran players. What is the point of having money to spend if you are not willing to use it to fill positions of need? Both were willing to come to a team at the bottom of the very competitive Western conference and a FO that has been rightfully lampooned. If the Lakers are to attract an A-list player they will have to earn that on the court. Maybe in a couple of years that will be possible.
tbiv21 says
Westbrook will have 9 years of service at the end of next year putting him at 30% of the cap. Also that could change with an opt out by either the owners or players. However, a max salary with his amount of time would only be just over 30 mil if that 102 number turns out to be accurate. Also the number on basketball insiders doesn’t include Ingram’s salary since he has yet to sign so that will be a little over 5 mil so picking up the options would leave them with less than 19 mil, but it still won’t be that difficult to make 30 mil of room with not picking up those options and dumping young.
_ Robert _ says
cyborgspider So you are talking about salary dumping Deng, before he has even played a game for us; “freeing” ourselves of Williams, and Nick Young’s future with the Lakers depending on a miracle.
While I agree with your assessment of most of these situations:
How does this mean we are thinking years ahead? Perhaps we could think before we signed all of these contracts?
By the way – are we really going to keep Nick Young on the roster? Seriously?
Still R says
Hibbert signs with Charlotte one year at 5 million.
Compare to Mozgov four years at 72 million.
Kareemez says
_Craig W spartla mattal Still, the Mozgov deal was an overpay. He’s not going to be making the club money like Kobe did. However, the picture that fivethirtyeight painted is overly bleak. Mozgov had a down year because of injuries and roster (Thompson and Love became much bigger parts of that team last year). He may return to his previous year’s production, in which case he will be much less of an overplay. Similarly, as Craig mentioned, Black was barely played by Scott, so the evaluation seems a bit harsh. Again, stating these numbers without context is a fools errand.
LT Mitchell says
So basically, the Lakers overspent on free agents by tens of millions, but managed to save $2.5 million.
That’s like spending $20 on a gallon of gas but getting a one dollar discount for being a good customer.
Alexander_ says
There is general consensus among fans and pundits on Mozgov being a bad contract, yet Luke is on record for pushing hard for it and the FO for rushing to get it done, i.e. having bought in as the right early FA move. One group is right, the other is isn’t, although most likely there will be aspects of both “arguments” that will be right and wrong. Once you get past Whiteside, who was going to get a plethora of max offers, the FO could have overpaid any big, yet this is the one they wanted. There was real belief in Mozgov being the best available selection for Luke’s system.
I don’t like to bet against people with inside information. Luke has detailed knowledge of Moz as a player, and even more so what he wants to do with him and as part of the ensemble. Nobody talked of Bogut at $11m/yr being a bad contract last year, yet Mozgov at $16m next year is roughly equivalent. Perhaps the difference is just winning. Of course, 3 yrs with team option for 4th, would have been better. I’m sure Mitch thought of that too, probably even proposed it, but couldn’t get it done.
The Black contract at $6 per was expensive compared to re-signing Bass at less, who’s also a more proven player. But the roster is already full, and we’d rather get a young big with upside than a similar level vet who deserves minutes, yet is an average league player. $6m was high, but as the past “purchase”, cap-inconsequential for 2016-17. If Black flourishes in the new system, he’s value at $6m next year; if not, he’s gone.
Deng’s contract reminds me a little of Mitch signing backcourt players on the decline (Richmond, Payton), where the player was once a stud but could no longer compete with younger athletic opponents. Bazemore was the right signing, but double-overpaying Bazemore at $20m, or Barnes at max, to get either would have killed the max slot next year – what the $2.5m contract wranglings were about. I’m hopeful we’ll be rewarded for this next year, when there are fewer teams with a max slot and more top shelf FA’s than this year.
LAL is going to be much more attractive next year. We’ll have six (!) promising young players at NBA starter level or better, a few decent vets, a fun coach and system, and Hollywood. The league’s superstars have always had one thing in common, by definition – they are driven to win. They need to believe they will be the final catalyst to build a lasting legacy at a winning organization. Hollywood alone was never enough – these guys are looking to win, not vacation – but glitter and our unmatched fan base, once the winning is assured, become major FA draws again. Starting next year, Mitch can pitch this credibly, once again.
Alexander_ says
mattal Every team in the league would have paid $12.5m/yr for Clarkson, none would have balked exceeding $9.45m. Statistical inference can only be so nuanced.
Darius Soriano says
LT Mitchell These are two separate arguments, really. If quibbling with the general contracts is what you want to do, have at it. Many are on record disagreeing totally, or at least partially. I am one of them. That said, structuring the deals the way they did in order to try and ensure a max slot for next season is better than not doing so. I’m pretty sure *this* aspect of the contract cannot be argued.
Darius Soriano says
tbiv21 I fixed this in the post.
Darius Soriano says
FredP It will be interesting to see how the cap moves in the coming years. The cap was projected to be upwards of $110 million next summer and the newest projection is at $102 million. Hard to say how things will really go next year or the year after.
Also, next year’s FA crop is much stronger, so if there’s any time to have a max slot, it’s next year. The issue the Lakers surely wrestled with was whether they would get meetings w/ that crop of players if they did not improve enough this upcoming season. It’s clear they think the guys they signed will help them improve. Time will tell.
Darius Soriano says
Alexander_ mattal Look at the contract Tyler Johnson got from the Nets. They easily would have offered Clarkson that same deal and if Clarkson signed that offer sheet the Lakers would be paying him $20 million a season in year’s 3 and 4.
Kareemez says
Darius Soriano FredP Darius, Do you think the league is downplaying the cap in an effort to shape the narrative around CBA contract negotiations?
_Craig W says
Alexander_ Excellent analysis. From what you are saying, we ought to be complaining about the Deng contract 4@$72, rather than Mozgov – whom the coaching staff wanted. IMO, they really thought they could get at least 3 good years out of Mozgov and they could more easily trade Deng after 2+ years of reduced usage, i.e. he should age better with less mileage than Tibs was putting on him.
If Zblock develops in 3 years, then the timetable will be just about perfect for the Mozgov contract. There are more moving pieces here than most fans want to consider.
matt24 says
How come Calderón expiring contract is not mentioned?
LT Mitchell says
You are right… two separate arguments. Although I am relieved that the Lakers can afford to pay one max contract next summer, it just seems a bit like icing on a stale cake. I would have prefered the flexibility to sign two max players. If Mosgov and Deng can make a big enough impact this season to attract a max player, the signings may pay off. I just don’t think it’s a likely scenario. Granted, even with the added cap space, signing two max players would have been an equally unlikely scenario, but at least that route would have placed this team closer to contention than the path the team is on now.
J C hoops says
Alexander_
wow – nice post.
If Mozgov performs to the level that Laker insiders expect, I think his contract will make sense moving forward – your comparison to Bogut is apt.
I like Zubac a lot, and I always liked Tarik Black too. Was Black going elsewhere if we didn’t pay him $6m? Maybe the FO didn’t want to lose another promising big with upside (see Ed Davis, Jordan Hill). If Black’s contract’s second year is a team option, that’s not bad, and reminds me of the Hill contract in that regard.
Everyone here loves Clarkson but no one criticizes that contract – at 12m annually, that one feels like an overpay to me.
J C hoops says
LT Mitchell
we had to hit the cap floor this year, so it may have been tough and even counter-productive to keep reloading or presenting to everyone that we don’t believe in our players enough to sign them for more than one-year deals. That hasn’t been working.
My fingers are crossed on Mozzie.
J C hoops says
Still R
Charlotte signed Hibbert because a cardboard cutout of Bill Russell wouldn’t take a meeting with them.
new rr says
Alexander_
It may be that Walton thinks that Mozgov can be the Lakers’ version of Bogut, but there are two big problems with that:
1. Assist rate. Bogut’s career AST is 12.3, while Mozgov’s is 4.5. This is not a system thing, even as 21-year-old rookie playing in Milwaukee, Bogut was getting far more dimes than Mozgov.
2 Age: Bogut is only 21 months older than Mozgov, and the Lakers have Mozgov signed through his age-34 season. GS had Bogut for his age 28-31 seasons. The counter there is that Mozgov does not that have much mileage.
That said, there are some similarities between the two, so I don’t think the signing is as bad as the 538 raw numbers would suggest and Walton may believe that if Mozgov’s USG goes down, as Bogut’s did, his efficiency will go up.
But I still wouldn’t have done it. As I said a couple of weeks ago, buying into the Mozgov deal basically comes back to trusting Walton.
J C hoops says
mattal
these numbers seem too low in the context of the current market and cap. $560k per year for Mozgov? Who is 538 anyway? $110k per year for Black? isn’t that less than the NBA minimum? So they’re saying Black doesn’t even belong in the league?
J C hoops says
_Craig W spartla mattal
Craig, Nice photo.
new rr says
J C hoops LT Mitchell
Again: no one has to hit the cap floor. All that happens is that you have to pay out the money to your roster guys and the deadline is not until the end of the season in any case.
new rr says
_Craig W Alexander_
“There are more moving pieces here than most fans want to consider.”
—
Sure, and one of them is that, barring a big trade, the money committed to Deng and Mozgov will not be available to use in free agency to get a star player who might actually take the team into contention. The FO finally moved on from “financial flexibilty” by committing 136M to two guys in their thirties who are not stars and who have health concerns. Will it work? Sure, maybe, but even if it does, there will be trade-offs. And meanwhile, the Lakers still owe about 12M to Lou Williams and Nick Young this year.
J C hoops says
new rr J C hoops LT Mitchell
rr is correct – however, i believe most teams feel that missing the floor may have negative ramifications – players that are on the roster will get even more than contracted for – it seems to me that most teams and owners would prefer to add talent for that dollar spent, as opposed to just dumping it onto the “floor” and spreading it out amongst their millionaire athletes. if I was an owner, I ‘d be asking my GM why another player wasn’t added that could potentially help the team.
An exception to this may be that guys like Clarkson may have been told there may be extra money coming for this reason.
new rr says
_Craig W spartla mattal
Craig,
Kobe’s deal has expired, but just to be clear:
1. We have no idea what would have happened if they had signed him for one year, or for less money, or not at all. So there are no “facts” of the type that you assert–there is only conjecture.
2. I personally don’t root for the Lakers bottom line, but if the Busses making bank off KB makes you happy, well, fandom is a personal and subjective thing.
3. The argument that the financial loyalty shown to Kobe by the FO will pay off in future FA recruitment is of course pure spec. It would be just as easy to argue that it shows that the Lakers don’t care about winning and that it will scare FAs off.
But basically, if one argument you are making involves something that may happen in some small way at some unspecified time in the future, it is probably time to find a new argument.
new rr says
mattal
I gave the post a like, since it introduces a new perspective and is from a pretty good source, but I think the valuations of Mozgov and Black are low.
That noted, I am not thrilled with either deal or with the Deng deal.
Alexander_ says
_Craig W Alexander_ Thank you. You read my mind on Deng, I would have said more on that but the post was way long already. Perfect comment on the money too – cap$ are points so to speak to be allocated v. real $, LAL would be offering crazy amounts without a cap, given their profitability.
The FO hadn’t seen Zu yet play in SL. His game will translate well into the season, while smaller players’, less so. In a redo, Zu goes lottery possibly. This may have changed Moz as top-gettable, or maybe not.
Alexander_ says
new rr _Craig W Alexander_ Craig, I am not exactly happy with our get either, but I’m pointing out the reality that the FO had to face. FA is a multi-player chess game and you have to make your moves in time crunch. What would you have done? Would you have waited patiently once the top tier and second tier players signed elsewhere to pick from the discount heap? That was what we did previously, and we (rightly) roasted them for it. Instead, they picked acceptable players that fit best, overpaying year 4, almost certainly because they had to. Perhaps that’s where we are paying the Jim-promise penalty, but I’d rather have that than trading away our youth.
Alexander_ says
new rr Alexander_ Don’t you have to trust Walton a bit on who best fits his system, *from the players available and willing to come*?
No disagreement on Mozgov, but this is not EA Sports, where you get to get anyone you like at a fair price. The FO had an FA board, just like their draft board, and went down the list. Moz was higher on that list that othes. If the GSW had known they’d be getting KD, perhaps we could have arranged for Bogut himself at $11m/1yr, but that’s not how it timed.
Alexander_ says
new rr _Craig W Just to get a little cheeky…
You walk into the store the minute before it closes, you have a $5 bill, They have closed the register and they have no change to give. They only have two eggs at $1 each, some expired stuff you’d never eat for $0.10 each, and a couple of fancy boxed dinners at $9 each. Guess what? You’re going home with two eggs and happy they took your $5. 😉
new rr says
Alexander_ new rr _Craig W
“What would you have done?”
_____
I said at the time that I didn’t see the need to sign Mozgov
in the first three hours of free agency. Given that his deal appeared to set
the market for the other guys in his group, and that they all signed a few or
several days later, I will stick with that. As to what I would have done, I
would rather have Biyombo on his deal, Ezeli on his, or Bass on his, than
Mozgov at 4/64. You can also make arguments for Cole Aldrich and Ian Mahinmi as
being better deals than Mozgov, although I am not as big on those. Meyers
Leonard was restricted, but he signed for 4/41.
As to who would have come based on where they signed and for
how much: Bass, obviously. Probably Ezeli. Not sure about Biyombo. Aldrich, who
is a Minnesotan, probably not. Mahinmi,
probably. Personally, assuming that the Lakers wanted to spend big on a 5, I
would have gone harder for Biyombo. He is very limited offensively, but he is
young, mobile and provides rim protection. Obviously, though, Buss and Kupchak wanted to
stabilize the lineup with two veterans, and they needed a wing and a 5. I think you can make a case that they should have
just signed one—either Mozgov or Deng—and then tried to go younger and/or
cheaper at the other spot.
One thing to remember: next year’s pick is again Top-3
protected, and as of now, the Lakers look like they could be just good enough
to make keeping the pick unlikely but not good enough to really have a shot at
the 8th seed, winning maybe 30-33 games.
So it comes down in a way to Walton, who, along with D’Angelo
Russell and Brandon Ingram, and, to a lesser extent, Jeanie Buss, is now the
Face of the Franchise. If you look at the roster, and how the lineup and rotation
are likely to shake out, I think you can see that Walton, while he has already said
that you build the system to fit the talent, also seems to be thinking “Warriors
Lite” to an extent. Mozgov fits that paradigm in the Bogut role, and Deng fits
it, since like Nance, Randle, and Ingram, he is a guy you can see covering more
than one position depending on matchups.
Does that (and the mentoring/culture angle) outweigh the facts
about these guys’ ages, track records, and contracts? I think not, but maybe it
will.
fern16 says
I wonder the same thing, there is Calderon’s 7.7 mill expiring to consider too.
fern16 says
The Lakers are betting on the young core. I seriously doubt we get Westbrook for the same reason KD didn’t meet with the Lakers. It’s expected that the team will improve next season. But not enough. This modern day “superstars” want to join teams taylor made to win now. The Lakers could be in that position in 3 or 4 years. Precisely when these big contracts expire. They are here because they are veterans, they can mentor the young guys and they can help.We have 6, maybe 7 players that are young and fill the criteria of a young developing team. People can say whatever they want but Deng and Mozgov are big upgrades over Hibbert and Kobe. Like it or not veterans like that are vital in the development of any young team…
_ Robert _ says
Fern: I agree with your general concept of 3-4 years, however it is important how the team performs during that time. Are we going to eventually be a 55-60 win team like the 90’s teams became, which would make us attractive? In order to become that we need good veterans who will be superior to their counterparts on other teams. Think back to last year and we all knew we had $40 million coming off the books in the terms of Kobe and Hibbert. Everybody was excited about that right? And then all we get to replace that is Mosgov and Deng. No matter how you slice it – that is disappointing. And yes it does not totally derail the 3-4 plan, but it does not exactly accelerate it either.
Michael NP says
It’s amusing how people still mention how much the Lakers paid for Deng and Mozgov. So many teams paid much more money for lesser-talented players this summer. Think of the players acquired in recent years: Hill, Boozer, Young, Ellington. The new acquisitions are more talented and play much better defense. The length of the contracts is a minor issue. The max cap will go up again – Williams and Young will both be gone before Russel’s rookie contract is up.
Vasheed says
Alexander_ new rr _Craig W
I don’t blame the Lakers for acting quickly. But I’m not convinced that Mozgov would even be a second tier player. That’s the problem.
Still R says
Moz getting more than 3xs as much per year for 4xs as long. He compares to Hibbert because both were flat out rejected by their previous teams. Also, from here it’s questionable how much either still have left.
I’d say it’s a safe bet the Moz contract will represent dead money in 0-4 years. Maybe he’ll prove to have been a good get – I’d like to be proven wrong – but it’s hard to get excited about him as a laker at this price point.
matt24 says
Striking fact i just realized, mosgov has only played 6718 nba minutes, per basketball reference
Similar ages
Roy hibbert 15707 minutes, noah 16848 minutes, horford 193421 minutes, bogut 18929 minutes, Jefferson 24884 minutes
wwlofficial says
matt24 I have been mentioning it. Mozgov entered the league at 24 so he’s a young veteran actually. Not high mileage. Hate to say the word, but we could have a “steal” in him if everything plays right.
wwlofficial says
Lets also not forget that the Cavs spent 2 1st rounders to acquire Mozgov 2 seasons ago. If not for the TT contract, the Cavs would gladly retain him at this price in the “new NBA” going rate.
Darius Soriano says
What I gather from the comments is the same people hold the same opinions about the Lakers as they have on this board for ages. Good times.
MT87 says
Still R If everything goes right both Mozgov and Deng will be moved to the bench because our young guys have developed to the point where they have to be started. It’ll suck to sit on those deals for four years with Mozgov and Deng riding the pine but at least that would mean we have a team that can really play.
I think the worst thing would be if four years from now both Mozgov and Deng were still starting for some reason. If neither Nance or Randle develop a reliable 3pt shot or Zubac and Black don’t turn out to be starting centers than Mozgov’s and Deng’s contracts will be the least of our problems.
CHearn says
J C hoops Alexander_ Clarkson’s contract is less contentious because ostensibly he was a 2nd round draft pick whose skills are currently surpassing expectations. At some point, the Lakers have to provide financial security to organic players in the system. By doing so, the Lakers culture develops and the team communicates an expectancy to draftees that if they listen to the coaching staff, improve their core capabilities while maintaining high character on and off the court, as employees, they too will create enough prominence within the league to secure their future both financially and with the organization.
_Craig W says
Darius Soriano Yup! We do seem to spend our time defending our positions, instead of examining alternatives.
matt24 says
Don’t know about a steal but he is an adverage to above adverage center. He only started 2 years in his career.
2013-14, 21 mins, 9.4 pts. 6.4 reb, 1.2 blk, 16.7 per
2014-15, 25 mins, 9.7 pts, 7.3 red, 1.2 blk, 16.6 per,,and he only takes 7 shots per game
We gotta stop with the roy hibbert comparisons.
matt24 says
Here’s roy hibbert numbers from last year so yall can compare it
23 mins, 5.9 pts, 4.9 reb, 1.4 blk, 11.2 per ,,5 shots per game
HumanLakers says
So many complaining about Deng….Don’t understand why. He can play SF and PF, good all around game, above average defender, is a hard worker, true professional and will help the young guys on and off the court. And who are the realistic alternatives? Look at the numbers for comparable players like H.Barnes 4y/94Mil, C.Parson 4y/95Mil, R. Anderson 4y/80Mil or A. Crabbe 4y/75Mil E. Turner 4y/75Mil. That’s a lot of money. The Lakers have enough young talent on their team but they need veteran leadership. So factoring in the circumstances I personally really like Deng. Somebody has to get paid and Deng is ahold choice
P.S : Marvin Williams for 4y/55Mil, that would have benn really nice !!!!
Joe Kerr says
MT87 Still R If they get moved to the bench, then there was no reason to sign them to 4 year contracts and at 64 mil and 72 mil.
mattal says
matt24
Except that Hibbert’s numbers from the same years are similar:
2013-14, 29 mins, 10.8 pts. 6.6 reb, 2.2 blk, 13.54 per on 9 shots per game
2014-15, 25 mins, 10.6 pts, 7.1 reb, 1.4 blk, 15.47 per on 9 shots per game
A Horse With No Name says
Darius Soriano
Yup, Gonna sit this one out . . .
MT87 says
Joe Kerr MT87 Still R I don’t think I agree with that statement. I doubt either was signed with the intention of being a four year starter nor should they be if one of our young draft picks becomes a superior player in the meantime. Things change; we shouldn’t organize our lineup according to the size of a player’s contract.
matt24 says
Oooh snap
We’re doomed
bluehill says
off topic – check out this video of Manute Bol’s son, Bol Bol. You think Ingram is skinny. Also shows the evolution of big men. He does things his dad wouldn’t think of trying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCIhnUhUcrM
Joe Kerr says
MT87 Joe Kerr Still R Yes, that is my point. If they were not signed “with the intention of being a four year starter,” they should not have been given 4 year contracts at 64 mil and 72 mil. Perhaps it would have been better to pay people who were cheaper and would accept a 2 year contract.
new rr says
Darius Soriano FredP
Yeah, but it might have been easier to recruit with two max slots open and a bunch of young guys, than with one open and guys like Deng and Mozgov making 32M. So, if the Lakers are looking to make a big splash in FA next year, I am not at all sure that Deng and Mozgov are the best way to get there.
The other thing with the 2017 FA class is that Westbrook, the logical target in many ways, is a questionable fit.
cyborgspider says
_ Robert _ cyborgspider No Robert, please read my post more carefully. I said in two years, once George/Cousins are available, and the Lakers need cap space, you’ll be able to dump Deng and have Lou’s contract off the books for an easy 25 mil available.
KevTheBold says
Regarding this desperation to attract max free agents, I just don’t understand it.
I for one believe that our core will grow and develop into the stars we require.
Prior to Durant, what max free agent did the Warriors land before they won their championship and afterwards a 73 win season?
Who did the Spurs land?
How many teams have gutted their rosters in this overrated idea of the Max Free Agent?
Many more than have benefited, and that’s a fact.
When read these free agent posts,..I see people who never believe in what they have, only what they don’t. A grass is always greener syndrome.
Impatience kills not only the human body, it kills teams.
Thus far, the moves the FO made are logical and far sighted, and as long as Jim is not pressured and held up to gun point for his earlier optimistic, if not premature comments, we will be fine, simply enjoying the organic growth of our team.
Still R says
Who before Durant?
Well…
Who did the Celtics land?
Who did the Heat land?
Who did the Cavs land?
So the idea of getting over the hump with a top FA isn’t specious.
MT87 says
Joe Kerr MT87 Still R Contracts are handed out according to what the market will bear and what the FO feels they can pull off more than what they think is going to happen four years out. Even if Mozgov and Deng start for all four years and never miss a game people still won’t feel like their contracts were justified, right or wrong. Will it really be any different if they come off the bench in years 3/4?
Does it make more sense to you to have Deng and Mozgov start over a younger player who is ready to take their spot when the time comes? I feel like that is a question we will actually have to deal with sometime. Its more interesting in any case than wishing we hadn’t signed those contracts.
KevTheBold says
Still R
It was about the Warriors,.. read the post.
As for your other stuff, you make my point, as two of the three were all about Lebron.
You want to talk about the Celtics and old Garnett and Pierce,.. be my guest.
Still R says
I did read your post; you cherry picked examples of teams that didn’t excell by adding a top FA. I helpfully provided counter examples that you attempted to rebut with blather. Whatever.
KevTheBold says
Still R
Cherry picked?
Go to the Lakers for example, a team you are I suppose a fan of?
Both the Showtime and Kobe Shaq were carried over the top into championships by their draft picks, not their free agents.
As for you, Lebron and the Celtics is all you could come up with?
Lol,…
fern16 says
Obviously is important how the team perform. My hope is that in three or four years we could be a 50 win team. A 50 win team with a young promising core is an atractive proposition for these millenial “superstars” who can believe they could push this team over the hump.
fern16 says
I for one never expected KD to sign for the simple reason that we stink, my biggest hope was Whiteside and he didn’t give us the time of day. So unless the team start to make some real improvements starting next season thats going to be the narrative. And Robert i doubt the Lakers are counting on Deng and Mozgov to be the ones to take this team in a foward momentum. It’s gotta be the kids. The sucess or failure of this rebuilt its entirely on how they perform. And i stand by my comment that Mizgov and Deng are upgrades. Not superstar upgrades but upgrades that can hel the kids thrive, which is the whole point.
matt24 says
It’s so comical we’re complaining because we got mosgov and not biyombo. Oh well there goes our playoff hopes. (Sarcasm )